Go to Post We moved-ish mostly, in a direction or two. - Siri [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 18 votes, 4.78 average. Display Modes
  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:12
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is offline
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,928
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielPlotas View Post
I can somewhat understand disabling in a qualification match to keep things going, but in a playoff match, especially the final match, the referees should be trying to get as many robots able to play as possible.
So the rules should be disregarded because its the finals?
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-Present

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #62   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:13
CTHP CTHP is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11
CTHP is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Sure. Find out that the robot is too tall early on Wednesday inspections and keep that fact in your back-pocket until you need to use it.
Reply With Quote
  #63   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:13
Street_dreamZ Street_dreamZ is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Team Spirit / Cheering
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Rookie Year: 1000
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Street_dreamZ is a splendid one to beholdStreet_dreamZ is a splendid one to beholdStreet_dreamZ is a splendid one to beholdStreet_dreamZ is a splendid one to beholdStreet_dreamZ is a splendid one to beholdStreet_dreamZ is a splendid one to behold
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

The too-high rollers!
In all seriousness, I find it ridiculous that the refs ruled them too tall. Why were they too tall during the last match, but not too tall for any other matches, when nothing changed? Does consistency not matter at all?
Reply With Quote
  #64   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:15
Chad987 Chad987 is offline
It's not enough.
AKA: Chad Pesquera
FRC #0987
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 36
Chad987 will become famous soon enoughChad987 will become famous soon enough
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDav540 View Post
VIOLATION: If fix is a quick remedy, the MATCH won’t start until all requirements are met. If it is not a quick remedy the offending
ROBOT will be DISABLED and at the discretion of the Head REFEREE must be re-Inspected.

"Quick" is relative, so it's possible the refs told them their arms were too tall, and then 987 couldn't remove them fast enough.
They ruled that our our arms were illegal in their extended state because the outside corner was above 78" (even though at inspection they were deemed legal) getting under what they claimed to be legal height would have been as simple as pressing a button on the solenoid.
Reply With Quote
  #65   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:15
DanielPlotas DanielPlotas is offline
Registered User
FRC #1984 (Raider Revolution Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: OP Kansas
Posts: 98
DanielPlotas will become famous soon enoughDanielPlotas will become famous soon enough
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
So the rules should be disregarded because its the finals?
My argument is quite the opposite. As others have quoted, a quick fix remedy should be allowed, but I can somewhat understand the referees disabling a robot during qualifications, to keep on pace.
__________________
Sleep? What is that? A rare Pokemon?
Reply With Quote
  #66   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:16
Whippet's Avatar
Whippet Whippet is offline
MIT Class of 2020
AKA: Luis Trueba
FRC #4301 (New Tech Narcissists)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,187
Whippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond reputeWhippet has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Whippet
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTHP View Post
Sure. Find out that the robot is too tall early on Wednesday inspections and keep that fact in your back-pocket until you need to use it.
Hold on there. Let's try to keep any accusations to ourselves unless we have actual evidence. I'm just as disappointed with the ruling as you are, but we need to keep our heads level.
__________________
2010: FRC 3043, Build Assistant
2011: FRC 3043, Head of Minibot subteam; FLL 12762, Team Captain
2012: FRC 3043, Electrical; FLL 12762, Team Captain; FTC 5670, Team Captain
2013: FRC 4301, Electrical, Team Co-Captain
2014: FRC 4301, Electrical/Programming, Team Co-Captain
2015: FRC 4301, Electrical/Programming, Team Captain
2016: FRC 4301, Chief Technical Officer; FTC 10860, 10861, and 11004: Mentor. Winner, Hub City Regional (3310 & 4063)
Reply With Quote
  #67   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:17
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is offline
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,928
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielPlotas View Post
My argument is quite the opposite. As others have quoted, a quick fix remedy should be allowed, but I can somewhat understand the referees disabling a robot during qualifications, to keep on pace.
So then a "quick fix" should only be allowed in the finals?

Rules should be the same the entire regional. In this instance, I guess the refs ruled the fix to not be "quick".
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-Present

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #68   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:17
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,821
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street_dreamZ View Post
The too-high rollers!
In all seriousness, I find it ridiculous that the refs ruled them too tall. Why were they too tall during the last match, but not too tall for any other matches, when nothing changed? Does consistency not matter at all?
It's certainly possible they were too tall in only the final match, due to any number of factors, while having passed inspection at the correct height.

They may just have needed to tweak something to bring the robot back within height...but they obviously weren't given that chance.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #69   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:21
DohertyBilly DohertyBilly is offline
Registered User
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 51
DohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of lightDohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of lightDohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of lightDohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of lightDohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of lightDohertyBilly is a glorious beacon of light
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDav540 View Post
VIOLATION: If fix is a quick remedy, the MATCH won’t start until all requirements are met. If it is not a quick remedy the offending
ROBOT will be DISABLED and at the discretion of the Head REFEREE must be re-Inspected.

"Quick" is relative, so it's possible the refs told them their arms were too tall, and then 987 couldn't remove them fast enough.
Actually when I said that, I was quoting someone who was referencing 2613 being disabled for being over the landfill. That is unarguably a quick fix as intended by the rules. I stand by what I said about 987, and if they passed inspection in that configuration then it should have been legal. Idk why an inspector would spontaneously inspect a previously approved configuration...
__________________



Last edited by DohertyBilly : 28-02-2015 at 23:27.
Reply With Quote
  #70   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:22
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #0115 (MVRT)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,226
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

This was just ridiculous. It's totally unfair to disable a robot that slightly sticks into the landfill, on th grounds that moving it is not a "quick fix".
Plus, if a robot gets inspected, and a member from 987 posted that nothing changed, there shhould be an outstanding reason to disable one of the most powerful teams at a reiognal in only the very last match of the finals.

A similar situation happened to us in 2014. An alumni of the team actually inspected our robot and okayed it before elims. We go onto the field and lo and behold- the same guy says that we have to remove part of our robot in order to play.
Reply With Quote
  #71   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:22
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is offline
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,928
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by DohertyBilly View Post
Actually when I said that, I was quoting someone who was referencing 3802 being disabled for being over the landfill. That is unarguably a quick fix as intended by the rules. I stand by what I said about 987, and if they passed inspection in that configuration then it should have been legal. Idk why an inspector would spontaneously inspect a previously approved configuration...
Refs can call for another inspection if they deem it necessary. Its not rare, but its not common either.
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-Present

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #72   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:23
CTHP CTHP is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11
CTHP is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Well Chad987 from that team said that the bot was too tall, and too tall is too tall. If the inspection team missed it then that's unfortunate. Too bad it had to wait to be found in the last match. Sorry 987.
Reply With Quote
  #73   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:26
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #0115 (MVRT)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,226
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTHP View Post
Well Chad987 from that team said that the bot was too tall, and too tall is too tall. If the inspection team missed it then that's unfortunate. Too bad it had to wait to be found in the last match. Sorry 987.
Wait, he said it passed inspection without modifications after that. The rules only say that it has to pass inspection, not follow all the terms surrounding inspection.
The rule is clearly woreded that way to prevent this exact situation from occurring.
Reply With Quote
  #74   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:26
Tyler2517's Avatar
Tyler2517 Tyler2517 is offline
ShortOnes
AKA: Tyler Gibb
FRC #2517 (Evergreen Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 203
Tyler2517 has a spectacular aura aboutTyler2517 has a spectacular aura aboutTyler2517 has a spectacular aura about
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Refs can call for another inspection if they deem it necessary. Its not rare, but its not common either.
This was clearly not done. I don't see how it's possible to disable a robot on the field when there was no re-inspection how do they know i did not see them out on the field with a tape measure?
Reply With Quote
  #75   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-02-2015, 22:26
Ekcrbe's Avatar
Ekcrbe Ekcrbe is offline
When can I watch Einstein again?
AKA: Erik Boyle
FRC #4640 (Metallic Panthers)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 333
Ekcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond reputeEkcrbe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas

I think this instance points toward changing the rules to always give the offending team the chance to remedy the situation. Say you get 30 seconds, and if you're not done by then you will be disabled.
Bottom line, it shouldn't be the referees' responsibility to decide whether a team is able to perform an undefined task on its own robot within an unspecified amount of time. That's not on the referees, it's a matter of making the rules less ambiguous.
__________________
Four years of FRC 68 Truck Town Thunder
2012 Championship Newton Division Finalists—Thanks 330 and 639 for the Full Court Press!
2013 Kettering University District Chairman's Award Winners!
2014 Great Lakes Bay Region District Winners—Thanks 288, 4819, and 5166! | 2014 Waterford District Chairman's Award Winners! | 2014 Michigan FRC State Championship Chairman's Award Winners—Congratulations 33 and 503!
2015 Center Line District Chairman's Award Winners! | 2015 Lansing District Winners—Thanks 314 and 1684! | 2015 FIRST in Michigan District Championship Chairman's Award Winners—Congratulations 503 and 2137!


Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:22.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi