[FRC Blog] Event Results and API Data

[RyanShoff]

First opensourcing all the code they own would increase the quality of a lot of things.

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by RyanShoff

First opensourcing all the code they own would increase the quality of a lot of things.

That's a mighty bold statement. Pretty much totally wrong, but mighty bold.

Open source is essentially useless in an environment with forced deadlines.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by DareDad

That's a mighty bold statement. Pretty much totally wrong, but mighty bold.

Open source is essentially useless in an environment with forced deadlines.

Please tell us more about how allowing more about how the code getting more scrutiny ahead of time would make it worse. Can I sign up for your newletter?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by SoftwareBug2.0

Please tell us more about how allowing more about how the code getting more scrutiny ahead of time would make it worse. Can I sign up for your newletter?

There is a difference between open for scrutiny and open source.

If I put a document in a PDF and send it to you for you to review, that is open for scrutiny. If, however, I simply put the same document in GDocs and send you the link--with full editing permissions--that is open source.


In code, open source could be pretty bad, DEPENDING on a number of factors. Particularly, comments and other documentation, work breakup, and even "code styles".

But having the code open for scrutiny--that might help.

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by EricH

There is a difference between open for scrutiny and open source.

If I put a document in a PDF and send it to you for you to review, that is open for scrutiny. If, however, I simply put the same document in GDocs and send you the link--with full editing permissions--that is open source.


In code, open source could be pretty bad, DEPENDING on a number of factors. Particularly, comments and other documentation, work breakup, and even "code styles".

But having the code open for scrutiny--that might help.

Pretty much this. Because the FMS has to be built and fixed on a deadline, an open source model, where you are depending on people who have no reason to meet an arbitrary schedule or work on "uninteresting" bugs to work to a schedule and fix the uninteresting bugs.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by DareDad

Pretty much this. Because the FMS has to be built and fixed on a deadline, an open source model, where you are depending on people who have no reason to meet an arbitrary schedule or work on "uninteresting" bugs to work to a schedule and fix the uninteresting bugs.

I think you're ignoring countless fundamental open source projects that fit all these criteria and far more.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by DareDad

Pretty much this. Because the FMS has to be built and fixed on a deadline, an open source model, where you are depending on people who have no reason to meet an arbitrary schedule or work on "uninteresting" bugs to work to a schedule and fix the uninteresting bugs.

Many open source projects do all these things very well...

[nathanwalters]

Originally Posted by DareDad

Pretty much this. Because the FMS has to be built and fixed on a deadline, an open source model, where you are depending on people who have no reason to meet an arbitrary schedule or work on "uninteresting" bugs to work to a schedule and fix the uninteresting bugs.

You're falseoy equating open-source with community-built. I can name a number of open-source projects that were started, designed, and maintained by paid employees of a company but have code that is available for the public to view and modify at will. FIRST could still be the primary maintainer of the code while still allowing public scrutiny and pull requests.

[IceStorm]

Looks like some of the data is online at the http://frc-events.usfirst.org/ website now.

However at least 2 of the districts that I've looked at the data is showing up for the wrong alliance. (Red is Blue, and Blue is Red). The 2 that I have looked at are FiM - Southfield and FiM - Standish. I was trying to watch a few matches of teams so looked them up to find out what matches they played in on FRC Events. Then watched the video on youtube and they are on the opposite alliance in the video.

Not sure if they just transposed these the colors or what. But thought I would give everyone else a heads up. I also did not look at the Finals data or scores yet as I was just trying to do some scouting on teams that will be at our next event and see what they are capable of doing.

[PayneTrain]

Isn't there a pretty swell alternative to the FMS that is open source, or am I going crazy?

[Jon Stratis]

So, if they make the real FMS open source, does that mean everyone is going to run out and spend thousands (probably 10's of thousands) of dollars on servers, touch panels, routers, displays and all the other hardware required to make it actually work? As an experienced Software engineer, I can tell you that the system is most likely too complicated to accurately and reliably reproduce on a simple computer, at least to the point where someone could contribute to updating it. Isn't that why they released FMS Lite? It's a simple, low cost alternative to the FMS that actually CAN be run on a normal computer with no specialised equipment.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Isn't there a pretty swell alternative to the FMS that is open source, or am I going crazy?

Cheesy Arena is indeed open source. I didn't make it to Chezy Champs this year, but from what I hear, it performed flawlessly. No surprise given the all-star engineers that developed it.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

So, if they make the real FMS open source, does that mean everyone is going to run out and spend thousands (probably 10's of thousands) of dollars on servers, touch panels, routers, displays and all the other hardware required to make it actually work? As an experienced Software engineer, I can tell you that the system is most likely too complicated to accurately and reliably reproduce on a simple computer, at least to the point where someone could contribute to updating it. Isn't that why they released FMS Lite? It's a simple, low cost alternative to the FMS that actually CAN be run on a normal computer with no specialised equipment.

FMS Lite has not been updated in years and is not open source.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by dcarr

FMS Lite has not been updated in years and is not open source.

No, it's not open source, but I wasn't saying it was. I was saying it was designed to be used on cheap, easy to obtain hardware, unlike the real FMS.

And also, it hasn't been years since it was updated. It was updated just last year for the 2014 season, and I would assume it will be again this year. http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...lite-available

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

No, it's not open source, but I wasn't saying it was. I was saying it was designed to be used on cheap, easy to obtain hardware, unlike the real FMS.

And also, it hasn't been years since it was updated. It was updated just last year for the 2014 season, and I would assume it will be again this year. http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...lite-available

Thanks for that link, I wasn't aware of the 2014 version; if I recall correctly, there was a gap of several years prior to that (2009?) which is where I got that idea.

[RyanShoff]

Allow me clarify my statement:

Given the talent of our community, I know putting the FMS and STIMS/VIMS on Github would result in useful, bug fixing, and feature adding pull requests. It wouldn't take away control from FIRST but would allow motivated mentors and students to help.