Week 1 Observations

[angelah]

We competed at Southfield.

Things we thought would be a big deal but weren't:

• Picking up upside down totes (few people cleared the landfill that far)
• Driving over noodles
• Getting containers off the step in auto
• Tipping robots (a few did, but not as many as we expected)
• Totes falling on people or robots

Things that we didn't foresee:

• Noodles on steps cluttering up spots to stack (we lost a stack of points built by an alliance partner because of a noodle partially under it)
• Noodle throwing points making such a difference (I don't like this, but that's another conversation)
  The low scores

Things that were as expected:

• Totes landed on their ends (unless you used the drag-at-the-end method)
• The field is crowded (we built a smaller robot than most)
• Maneuverability would be critical, speed would not be
• Picking up containers laying on their sides would be necessary

Other general notes:

• We toppled a stack of yellows onto the other side in our second match. Granted, it was because of field communication issues, but still, we didn't get a penalty for it.
• There were two ways to go in an alliance... 2014-style where everyone took a role, or a more individual-style where you divided up the field and each did your thing. We played both ways depending on the match, but ended up building an alliance to work as a team in playoffs, which went well.

Overall, I like this game. I very much dislike the new system for playoffs.

[Bruce Newendorp]

After spending the weekend at the Northern Lights Regional at the northern end of I35 (compared to all the buzz about the one near the southern end of I35) my observations are:
Pros:
1. A manipulation game vs. a shooting/throwing game is a very nice change. Quick scoring is still highly valued but this game requires smooth driving and finesse.
2. I was concerned the playoffs would be fairly predictable and end up with the alliances getting the same score for every playoff match. This was not the case and the playoffs were exciting through the finals. Our alliance (3130, 525, & 4215) had scores ranging from 99 to 163 over the 7 playoff matches. With the scoring coming in large chunks one wrong move can completely change a match outcome.
3. Alliances of robots with varying ability is a huge benefit. We are a feeder station robot and can make 2 stacks with containers. 3130 was very good at getting containers off the step and can make 2 stacks with containers from the landfill. 4215 made stacks from the other feeder station. Picking alliance partners with the best skill fit is critical to success this year.

Cons:
1. The alliance vs. alliance competition is missing and takes away some of the excitement. In previous games strategic decisions on both alliances matter. Not so much this year.
2. Since high scores is all that matters, coopertition was and will not be a priority for all teams. Simply put some teams can score as many or more points on their own as they can doing the coopertition stack. We had to turn down doing coopertition with our opposing alliance because it was not advantageous to us. That’s not how we like to play but given the qualification scoring rules we have no choice but to maximize our score every match. We are sorry to any teams we had to have that discussion with.
3. Autonomous is very strange this year. Unless a team can get the three tote set, there is not much value in doing any autonomous scoring. An orderly field is easier for teams to plan a strategy around and generally the autonomous routines I saw made a mess of the field leaving it in a disadvantageous state for teleop. With more work we think we can get the three tote stack in autonomous but I doubt we will work on it any more. The risk does not outweigh the reward so we are likely to continue to use autonomous to get a container in position for teleop.

Other:
1. At Northern Lights the two teams that could make two 4-6 tall stacks with containers had qualification scores in the mid 90’s. There’s a significant gap to the next 6 qualifying scores which were in the upper 60’s to upper 70’s. Getting 2 tall stacks in 135 seconds will put teams at the top of the ranking. The litter and cooperation points average out over all the matches.
2. While coopertition points are a good way to get qualification points they have no value in the playoffs. Alliance selection picks need to consider this.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by lopsided98

At Granite State we were told by the refs that we were not allowed to do this and that the chute door can't be closed at all until the tote has exited.

Did anyone talk with the Head Ref about that? It seems inconsistent with Q260 and Q164. Nothing in G6 prohibits this method, although it could become a field damage (G16g) issue if done incorrectly with too much force.

[alicen]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Curious, what penalties are being called?

Let me just give a general "thank you!" for sharing this insight with the community!

GSCR just ended this afternoon and the most common fouls we called were throwing noodles in the last 20 seconds, two human players in the HP zone and a couple of crossing the start line during autonomous.

We didnt have a single G6 of touching tote and chute door, and only one red card in the entire event.

[Squillo]

Two other things I like about this game:
- It's not hard to avoid fouls, and the point values for most fouls seem reasonable, and
- The playoff format ensures more matches in the semi-finals; each team is guaranteed 3, rather than two plus a possible third. More matches is more of a reward for making it to playoffs.

(It would be better if they got three in the quarter-finals too.)

[alephzer0]

One thing I noticed (at least in MAR):
G6-1 is a killer. I saw at least 3 yellow cards and one red card from it.
For reference,G6-1 is the rule that says you can't prop open the chute door. That was a problem, I'm assuming, because HP's left totes in the chute with the door open and unattended.
Or something like that.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Squillo

Two other things I like about this game:
- The playoff format ensures more matches for the teams in the quarter- and semi-finals (each QF team gets to play 3 matches, rather than only two with a POSSIBLE 3rd - in the old format, while there were "underdog victories", the likelihood was that for alliances 7 and 8, at least, they would only get two elim matches; each SF team gets 3 more, so a total of 6 playoff matches). More matches is more of a reward for making it to playoffs.

This isnt right. You still only get 2 matches in the Quarters.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by dodar

This isnt right. You still only get 2 matches in the Quarters.

Yes this:

Quarterfinals in Regional (2 matches)

4-5
3-6
2-7
1-8

4-6
3-5
2-8
1-7

[Squillo]

Oh, well, that's a drag. But I see why it's necessary, to save time.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

It's really difficult to watch both alliances work at the same time. It's almost like there are two separate "games" coexisting at the same time.

The other thing that I thought was kind of funny was that this is the only year to my knowledge where a #1 seed can end up playing as the blue alliance.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by alephzer0

One thing I noticed (at least in MAR):
G6-1 is a killer. I saw at least 3 yellow cards and one red card from it.
For reference,G6-1 is the rule that says you can't prop open the chute door. That was a problem, I'm assuming, because HP's left totes in the chute with the door open and unattended.
Or something like that.

They handed like to G6-1 red cards out at Oregon City.

Some were caused by one of the chute doors being sticky, and not falling correctly. Field issue, but they couldnt fix it, and still gave out the cards.

I think it being a card is a bit too harsh. Thinking about the safety things, I think I came up with a way to keep it safe, make it not have a competitive advantage, and give less cards.

Add a safety zone 5 inches into the chute.
Red card if the HP extends past that line inside the chute
Keep regular G6
Remove the cards from G6-1 - keep the foul

That keeps the HP safe by not allowing them to put their hands inside the chute, which honestly I never saw and shouldnt happen anyway. And it take out the harsh card for if a tote gets stuck. You could also add a condition to G6 to make it so an HP in the zone cannot touch a tote if the chute door is propped open. But with the foul on G6-1 I dont really think thats needed, because that basically makes it so the chute door has to close in order to put another tote in without getting a foul.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by D.Allred

Absolutely. I used "slow is faster" with my drive team. You have to finish a task to score. Do it right the first time instead of trying to rush.

Here are my observations and suggestions.
- Co-op can be a huge factor in your rankings, but you have to work together to achieve it. No litter and no landfill work near the middle of the field until that task is complete.
- I saw too many teams driving with totes in the air in an unstable configuration. Leave them on the ground and push them on the platform.
- Don't turn fast. Angular momentum is your enemy unless you have tote stablizers.
- The field is crowded. Have an alliance plan on where you will work.
- There is a way to make totes land flat on the floor. It's a bit hard to describe, but essentially you use the chute door to drag the back 3 inches of the tote as it exits the chute. Takes practice, but I highly recommend it.

David

Just because the referees at Palmetto didn't know the rules, doesn't mean dragging isn't a G6 violation.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Did anyone talk with the Head Ref about that? It seems inconsistent with Q260 and Q164. Nothing in G6 prohibits this method, although it could become a field damage (G16g) issue if done incorrectly with too much force.

They made a clarification that in the blue box by linking to the field tour video and dragging is not in the video.

The whole thing surrounding G6 was seemingly intentionally vague for no real reason, but when our drive coach went in to the question box at Palmetto we were told we couldn't do it, even though D.Allred and 4451 were doing it during the same event.

It's the same referee crew that didn't know you could unload yellow totes from the field before the match and tried to convince me that the robot touching the cans in the staging area in auto was barely legal, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Just because the referees at Palmetto didn't know the rules, doesn't mean dragging isn't a G6 violation.

Dragging is not a G6 violation. Q&A said its not, and if your hand is controlling it, the tote is not propping it open. The HP is controlling and holding it open. If dragging would be a foul, then everytime you opened the door it would be a foul, because its dragging on the tote then too.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Thad House

Dragging is not a G6 violation. Q&A said its not, and if your hand is controlling it, the tote is not propping it open. The HP is controlling and holding it open. If dragging would be a foul, then everytime you opened the door it would be a foul, because its dragging on the tote then too.

Look at my other post. We came to the regional with the impression we could "pop" the totes by stopping them at the end of its travel trough the chute. Myself and other team members, along with other team members, were split on how we thought referees would rule on this with regards to the Q&A, so we asked at the event and got what we got.