Week 1 Observations

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by frasnow

My life got too busy to continue mentoring, so I've been relegated to the position of robotics fan. The past few years I've really enjoyed cheering on my favorite teams via the webcasts. Based on week 1, I don't think I'll watch much this year. It's not an exciting game.

Every team's playoff strategy: Score the most points in the manner we can, and don't mess up. Maybe try to get the recycling containers in the middle if necessary.

If all the robots are functioning well, as everyone desires in a robotics competition, most of the playoff matches are a forgone conclusion. If it wasn't for mistakes (and robots getting disabled), the top alliance (seeding format pushes the best to the top) should win the majority of regionals and districts. Who wants to cheer for teams to make mistakes or breakdown? Defending against an opponent's strategy should be an important part of every FIRST competition.

Though, I must say I enjoy watching gymnastics and golf, which don't have defense, but usually have very close matches. Perhaps I'll like this game on Einstein.

Random but I noticed gymnastics and figured I'd have to mention im a competitive gymnast. Very few people actually purposely watch gymnastics so it's interesting when I find people out in the while who actually enjoy it.

[David8696]

I think we discovered from finals at places like Dallas and Inland Empire that this game can actually be quite exciting when played well in a competitive setting (that catch of the falling stack by Code Orange in the last match though...). So my question is, why remove that competition from all but two or three matches a competition? Is the goal to encourage gracious professionalism, because the competitive element encourages taking of sides? Because if so, then it fails: I found myself on more than one occasion actually rooting for both alliances to play badly, so we could have a chance to move on. It's a shame that FIRST feels that this is the best way to handle nearly all the matches at a competition.

[MrForbes]

One rule change in the Team Update today....

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...ated-documents

3.2.2 Pre-MATCH and Post-MATCH
G14 ROBOTS will not be re-enabled after the conclusion of the MATCH, nor will Teams be permitted to tether to the ROBOT except in exceptional circumstances (e.g. during TIMEOUTS, after Opening Ceremonies, etc.) and with express permiession from the FTA or a Referee.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by David8696

I think we discovered from finals at places like Dallas and Inland Empire that this game can actually be quite exciting when played well in a competitive setting (that catch of the falling stack by Code Orange in the last match though...). So my question is, why remove that competition from all but two or three matches a competition? Is the goal to encourage gracious professionalism, because the competitive element encourages taking of sides? Because if so, then it fails: I found myself on more than one occasion actually rooting for both alliances to play badly, so we could have a chance to move on. It's a shame that FIRST feels that this is the best way to handle nearly all the matches at a competition.

Yeah...

It was awkward to wait 20 minutes to see if we really lost, all the while watching great alliances and thinking, "Well... it'd be a real bummer for them if they lost, but at least we'd get to move on... but that'd be a real bummer for them"

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Yeah...

It was awkward to wait 20 minutes to see if we really lost, all the while watching great alliances and thinking, "Well... it'd be a real bummer for them if they lost, but at least we'd get to move on... but that'd be a real bummer for them"

Looking forward to watching teams celebrate when other alliances make slight mistakes on Einstein.

Oh boy!

-Mike

[cglrcng]

Having watched beginning last Friday many week 1 events over multiple feeds, (and deciding on not watching some events that did not have a static full field camera capture after Friday at all)...Constantly Changing Camera Angles certainly ruin the watchers experience of this particular game when watching streamed live competitions. Please get that across to anyone filming these events for live feeds or even videos for YouTube...While all those super photographer videophiles that hold and control cameras very often like to switch camera angles quickly, show the individual robot action, and give those closeup camera single robot shots, and show their oh so great creativity, it really messes up the game viewing audience a bunch and angers the watching true FRC fan public.

This game is bad enough on the game watching fan. If you cannot see both sides of the field, 6 robots going at it all at once, you cannot possibly keep up with the real action, or the realtime tough scoring situation.

Please, if you wish for the feeds to be watched, set up a static 1 camera full field capturing camera (straight or fisheye, it does not really matter)....But, the viewing public needs to see all the action all the time if possible. Thank you to all those that take the time to provide the live action feeds and replay videos. Some of us depend on being able to watch all the events we can, live or later.

Your work is fully appreciated, and if the camera angles stay static full field, I promise I will seek out and view your work. If the camera angles constantly switch....Then I promise to also switch....Channels, vids, and streams that is.

Signed, a fan of the COMPLETE FRC GAME Action. (Instead of individual FRC Robot actions).

It's just that I personally watch the live feeds or videos to see the complete play of both alliances at the same time. When the actual game is interrupted for that extreme closeup shot of 1 single robot, the game actually ceases to exist at that moment. (I head for the kitchen for food like a NASCAR Commercial break, or to another feed, as that particular competition isn't the only game in town on a particular weekend). At least w/ NASCAR I have the DVR to fall back on and blast through the commercials.

I stayed w/ a few all weekend long, others not so much, since the maddening & constantly switching camera angles ran me off really fast. And I never returned. You wish to have all your hard work viewed throughout the event...Am I correct?

Thanks for listening. Your work is appreciated.

[Scott Kozutsky]

Originally Posted by cglrcng

Having watched beginning last Friday many week 1 events over multiple feeds, (and deciding on not watching some events that did not have a static full field camera capture after Friday at all)...Constantly Changing Camera Angles certainly ruin the watchers experience of this particular game when watching streamed live competitions. Please get that across to anyone filming these events for live feeds or even videos for YouTube...While all those super photographer videophiles that hold and control cameras very often like to switch camera angles quickly, show the individual robot action, and give those closeup camera single robot shots, and show their oh so great creativity, it really messes up the game viewing audience a bunch and angers the watching true FRC fan public.

This game is bad enough on the game watching fan. If you cannot see both sides of the field, 6 robots going at it all at once, you cannot possibly keep up with the real action, or the realtime tough scoring situation.

Please, if you wish for the feeds to be watched, set up a static 1 camera full field capturing camera (straight or fisheye, it does not really matter)....But, the viewing public needs to see all the action all the time if possible. Thank you to all those that take the time to provide the live action feeds and replay videos. Some of us depend on being able to watch all the events we can, live or later.

Your work is fully appreciated, and if the camera angles stay static full field, I promise I will seek out and view your work. If the camera angles constantly switch....Then I promise to also switch....Channels, vids, and streams that is.

Signed, a fan of the COMPLETE FRC GAME Action. (Instead of individual FRC Robot actions).

It's just that I personally watch the live feeds or videos to see the complete play of both alliances at the same time. When the actual game is interrupted for that extreme closeup shot of 1 single robot, the game actually ceases to exist at that moment. (I head for the kitchen for food like a NASCAR Commercial break, or to another feed, as that particular competition isn't the only game in town on a particular weekend). At least w/ NASCAR I have the DVR to fall back on and blast through the commercials.

I stayed w/ a few all weekend long, others not so much, since the maddening & constantly switching camera angles ran me off really fast. And I never returned. You wish to have all your hard work viewed throughout the event...Am I correct?

Thanks for listening. Your work is appreciated.

+1

I'd also like the streams to be high enough resolution to actually read the team numbers. I can understand the livestreams being not so good but the archives are really lacking most of the time.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by cglrcng

Having watched beginning last Friday many week 1 events over multiple feeds, (and deciding on not watching some events that did not have a static full field camera capture after Friday at all)...Constantly Changing Camera Angles certainly ruin the watchers experience of this particular game when watching streamed live competitions. Please get that across to anyone filming these events for live feeds or even videos for YouTube...While all those super photographer videophiles that hold and control cameras very often like to switch camera angles quickly, show the individual robot action, and give those closeup camera single robot shots, and show their oh so great creativity, it really messes up the game viewing audience a bunch and angers the watching true FRC fan public.

This game is bad enough on the game watching fan. If you cannot see both sides of the field, 6 robots going at it all at once, you cannot possibly keep up with the real action, or the realtime tough scoring situation.

Please, if you wish for the feeds to be watched, set up a static 1 camera full field capturing camera (straight or fisheye, it does not really matter)....But, the viewing public needs to see all the action all the time if possible. Thank you to all those that take the time to provide the live action feeds and replay videos. Some of us depend on being able to watch all the events we can, live or later.

Your work is fully appreciated, and if the camera angles stay static full field, I promise I will seek out and view your work. If the camera angles constantly switch....Then I promise to also switch....Channels, vids, and streams that is.

Signed, a fan of the COMPLETE FRC GAME Action. (Instead of individual FRC Robot actions).

It's just that I personally watch the live feeds or videos to see the complete play of both alliances at the same time. When the actual game is interrupted for that extreme closeup shot of 1 single robot, the game actually ceases to exist at that moment. (I head for the kitchen for food like a NASCAR Commercial break, or to another feed, as that particular competition isn't the only game in town on a particular weekend). At least w/ NASCAR I have the DVR to fall back on and blast through the commercials.

I stayed w/ a few all weekend long, others not so much, since the maddening & constantly switching camera angles ran me off really fast. And I never returned. You wish to have all your hard work viewed throughout the event...Am I correct?

Thanks for listening. Your work is appreciated.

I disagree completely and I'm a video guy. I was watching the Dallas regional on a 46 inch TV from a few feet away and couldn't see anything other then small blobs stacking bins. When they pulled in for some quick b-roll I got a lot more satisfaction. If possible I would like less static shots and more unique camera angles. An issue i did notice was the short periods of which they actually stayed on the b-roll. I feel like if you gave it long enough people who readjust to the action. It's all opinion but I'm a video guy and hate static shots.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

One rule change in the Team Update today....

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...ated-documents

3.2.2 Pre-MATCH and Post-MATCH
G14 ROBOTS will not be re-enabled after the conclusion of the MATCH, nor will Teams be permitted to tether to the ROBOT except in exceptional circumstances (e.g. during TIMEOUTS, after Opening Ceremonies, etc.) and with express permiession from the FTA or a Referee.

YAY!
Always fun being part of a rule change...

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

I'm sorry, when has this ever not been true? In 2013, could a team without excellent engineering, manufacturing and programming skills have built a robot with a 7 disk auto and a 30 point climb? Could a team without those skills have had a 3 ball auto for Aerial Assist? High scoring robots are built by teams that excel in all of these areas, regardless of the game.

The difference in the game is several fold. First the scoring premium for achieving the most difficult engineering task--balancing an RC on top of 6 cans--is much higher than any of the past premiums. And the difficulty of achieving intermediate premiums is not much less. Whereas going from 3 disk auto to 5 disk wasn't that hard, going to 7 disk was a big leap. Going from no RC to 1 RC turns out to be pretty difficult and getting to multiple totes is another big leap. The other difficultly is just acquiring an RC--so many teams spend the whole match chasing an RC.

But probably even more important was that in previous games a lesser robot (actually an alliance) could beat a better robot (especially acting alone) by devising a better strategy, of which there could be several. The only strategy this year is to be faster in the first second of auto, which really comes down to being better at engineering. If a strong robot uses common sense in planning, that team can beat an entire alliance of less well-built robots on its own. That does not encourage alliance teamwork as a good alternative. Running solo becomes the preferred route. That's the opposite direction FRC has been going for the last several years--rather successfully in my opinion.

BTW, this is a discussion better continued over in Defining Great Game Design: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?p=1452301

[Steven Smith]

I disagree completely and I'm a video guy. I was watching the Dallas regional on a 46 inch TV from a few feet away and couldn't see anything other then small blobs stacking bins. When they pulled in for some quick b-roll I got a lot more satisfaction. If possible I would like less static shots and more unique camera angles. An issue i did notice was the short periods of which they actually stayed on the b-roll. I feel like if you gave it long enough people who readjust to the action. It's all opinion but I'm a video guy and hate static shots.

I think it depends on what you are watching for. If I'm just watching casually, because I want to see who wins, am trying to scout a particular robot that isn't being zoomed to, or am focused more on top level movement/strategy, the full field view is ideal (90% of the time).

If I'm scouting other robots remotely (for future events), or just curious how well ____'s robot/mechanism is working... a few B roll type shots of an intake as a robot is picking up a tote/RC are quite nice. The closeups as a robot is just zooming around the field are quite annoying though.

[IceStorm]

Originally Posted by cglrcng

Having watched beginning last Friday many week 1 events over multiple feeds, (and deciding on not watching some events that did not have a static full field camera capture after Friday at all)...Constantly Changing Camera Angles certainly ruin the watchers experience of this particular game when watching streamed live competitions. Please get that across to anyone filming these events for live feeds or even videos for YouTube...While all those super photographer videophiles that hold and control cameras very often like to switch camera angles quickly, show the individual robot action, and give those closeup camera single robot shots, and show their oh so great creativity, it really messes up the game viewing audience a bunch and angers the watching true FRC fan public.

This game is bad enough on the game watching fan. If you cannot see both sides of the field, 6 robots going at it all at once, you cannot possibly keep up with the real action, or the realtime tough scoring situation.

Please, if you wish for the feeds to be watched, set up a static 1 camera full field capturing camera (straight or fisheye, it does not really matter)....But, the viewing public needs to see all the action all the time if possible. Thank you to all those that take the time to provide the live action feeds and replay videos. Some of us depend on being able to watch all the events we can, live or later.

Your work is fully appreciated, and if the camera angles stay static full field, I promise I will seek out and view your work. If the camera angles constantly switch....Then I promise to also switch....Channels, vids, and streams that is.

Signed, a fan of the COMPLETE FRC GAME Action. (Instead of individual FRC Robot actions).

It's just that I personally watch the live feeds or videos to see the complete play of both alliances at the same time. When the actual game is interrupted for that extreme closeup shot of 1 single robot, the game actually ceases to exist at that moment. (I head for the kitchen for food like a NASCAR Commercial break, or to another feed, as that particular competition isn't the only game in town on a particular weekend). At least w/ NASCAR I have the DVR to fall back on and blast through the commercials.

I stayed w/ a few all weekend long, others not so much, since the maddening & constantly switching camera angles ran me off really fast. And I never returned. You wish to have all your hard work viewed throughout the event...Am I correct?

Thanks for listening. Your work is appreciated.

I agree with having the whole field view. Other thing that really needs to be there is the bottom portion of the screen like what is shown on the big screen at the events, not all webcasts seem to have this. At least then you can read the numbers of the teams as well as see what the live points are at. With that I can usually figure out who a team is even if i'm not able to read the number on the bot. It also lets me leave the audio stream muted and quickly look to see what match is running if i'm waiting to watch a certain match number.