Stacking

[Rook]

I see this pop up in just about every thread. I think it deserves it's own.

I think stacking is to Stack Attack as Communism is to government.

Both look good on paper, but fail in practice.

Sure in the regionals this past weekend, there were moments when robot created stacks made the difference. However, those instances were more of the exception and not the rule.

Perhaps as teams learn the game, we will see more stacking, but I doubt it. It's just too simple to knock them down.

I think stacking would fair better in a coop game where all 4 robots are working against the clock like in 2001. Most people prefer head to head competition though.

I just think it's a shame that so many teams put the time into making a stacker and many of those teams will just cut it all off and make a push-bot for Nationals.

[Koko Ed]

Originally posted by Rook
I see this pop up in just about every thread. I think it deserves it's own.

I think stacking is to Stack Attack as Communism is to government.

Both look good on paper, but fail in practice.

Sure in the regionals this past weekend, there were moments when robot created stacks made the difference. However, those instances were more of the exception and not the rule.

Perhaps as teams learn the game, we will see more stacking, but I doubt it. It's just too simple to knock them down.

I think stacking would fair better in a coop game where all 4 robots are working against the clock like in 2001. Most people prefer head to head competition though.

I just think it's a shame that so many teams put the time into making a stacker and many of those teams will just cut it all off and make a push-bot for Nationals.

Team 73 and 835 might beg to differ.
They were very effective stacking bots.

[Rook]

Props to them. But it's not how effective you stack. It's how easy the stacks are to be knocked down. Unless you can stack them at the same rate they get knocked down, all your work will be for nothing.

There's always going to be the matches where the opposing alliance is busy doing something else, and the stackers are free to make their stacks.

[Koko Ed]

Originally posted by Rook
Props to them. But it's not how effective you stack. It's how easy the stacks are to be knocked down. Unless you can stack them at the same rate they get knocked down, all your work will be for nothing.

There's always going to be the matches where the opposing alliance is busy doing something else, and the stackers are free to make their stacks.

You have to pick right time to do it.
Like late when they don't have time to come after it or be rally good at protecting them like 835 was.

[Rook]

That's true. Perhaps stacking has some chance. We'll know more as the next few weeks of regionals play out.

[Joe Matt]

The stacker's have had two problems from the start to deal with:

1.) Bin orientation
2.) Bin picking up

While many can say that stacking can win this game, they are right. But when it comes to robot stacking, it fails miserably. Very rarely a robot can stack fast enough to defend the stack afterward and to defend their bins and stack. Plus, many stacker's are top heavy due to the height and components on the bot. This is a huge disadvantage on the ramp and on the HDPE.

Now stacking a good stack in human player mode and then defending that stack will win the game. It's all about defense. You and your alliance partner need to split up the work to defend your stacks and to attack your opponents stacks.

But even then, attacking your opponents stacks only helps you if you are loosing. If you are winning and your opponents have a stack of 5 with 10 bins in their area, and you have stack of 4 with 10 bins and you are on top of the ramp, then you get 40+25= 65, then you get 50*2= 100+65= 165 for qps. But if you knock down the stack, then you kill your qp score. Its now 15*2=30+65= 95. That's a 70 qp difference.

[Koko Ed]

Originally posted by Rook
That's true. Perhaps stacking has some chance. We'll know more as the next few weeks of regionals play out.

Strategy is definately the name of this game. Edison had to hold a stack too long in one game because another bot was hovering around waiting for them to drop it so they could knock it over and by the time they took off it was too late.

[Josh Hambright]

Alot of teams had stackers when they got to regionals this last weekend but many didn't use them...

The few that i saw that were doing it in cleveland (my team included) had problems in the beginning but by the end of the competition most of us had it down pretty good and were able to do it effectively.

It just takes a bit more skill and practice to stack a bin then to blow them around, but those bots that can stack, chances are they can blow to...so they have the advantage...

I still say stacking and protecting will become alot more important as time goes on.