Tether rules?

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by crake

Hey now, this is not a 2016 game discussion thread.

You just had to start that water game thing, didn't you

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by GrifBot

When this game starts to move from just the robot to all these un-motorized appendages, I'm starting to think that a water game is a good idea...
I think that tethers to motorized appendages like 148's HP loader is cool, but stationary ramps? Just doesn't feel like robotics. I think a drop down ramp to the human player station attached to your robot would be much cooler.
And just like any other part like a motorized HP loader, I would say that you have to tether it.

Non motorized robots have been around a while.

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Non motorized robots have been around a while.

How do you call that non-motorized? It's storing potential energy in a weight.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by bduddy

Recycle Rush is a fantastic engineering challenge

No argument!

Originally Posted by bduddy

and a terrible game.

Actually, it's rather like golf. Just about everyone who enjoys watching golf is (or at least was) an avid player.

Originally Posted by bduddy

It's up to you whether this is a net positive or not.

I think I've already answered that.

At first, I thought this game was too simple - the main game pieces have handles, for crying out loud! Then, as we started to break down the scoring, availability of game pieces, and dynamics, this has actually become my favorite game, and second favorite challenge (behind Ultimate Ascent) in my four years being in or near FRC.

In order to continue to inspire the next generation of technology and business leaders, the FIRST GDC must continually invent new games, and try not to reuse concepts in the same 4-year period. By the nature of this, each game will have strengths and weaknesses relative to the others.

I believe that FIRST has also done an intentional service to these students by including a "placement" game every few years. By my count, this is the 8th game with a primary stacking/hanging activity, with the first being Toroid Terror in 1997. The GDC does this even though placement games like Recycle Rush and golf have less spectator appeal. Why would they do this? How many commercial robots throw exercise balls or frisbees or mini basketballs through goals? And how many commercial robots pick up, align, and precisely place rectangles and cylinders and other well-defined but oddball shapes? I expect that we'll see flying game pieces and defense the next two or three years and a placement game again in three or four years.

[Kevin Leonard]

I believe that FIRST has also done an intentional service to these students by including a "placement" game every few years. By my count, this is the 8th game with a primary stacking/hanging activity, with the first being Toroid Terror in 1997. The GDC does this even though placement games like Recycle Rush and golf have less spectator appeal. Why would they do this? How many commercial robots throw exercise balls or frisbees or mini basketballs through goals? And how many commercial robots pick up, align, and precisely place rectangles and cylinders and other well-defined but oddball shapes? I expect that we'll see flying game pieces and defense the next two or three years and a placement game again in three or four years.

I agree that "placement" type games are important. However they can be done with defense (see Logomotion), and without the ability to win at the highest levels within a second (see Triple Play- NOT Logomotion).

They can also stick to a "competition" format, and not toss aside the W-L-T system that makes FRC what it is (not a science fair).

My problem with this game isn't that the type of scoring is boring, its that they removed so much of what makes FRC, FRC.
----

Anyway this discussion is about tethers and tethered robots. As I said earlier, tethers are an extrapolation of the lack of size restrictions, and thus there are no rules specifically about tethers except that the second piece of your robot ALSO NEEDS TO HAVE NUMBERS ON ALL SIDES OF IT.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by DareDad

How do you call that non-motorized? It's storing potential energy in a weight.

I didn't say it didn't move, just that it didn't have motors. Or would you consider a cuckoo clock motorized?

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

.. the second piece of your robot ALSO NEEDS TO HAVE NUMBERS ON ALL SIDES OF IT.

It's not onerous or unreasonable, but how do you get this from:

R2
Team numbers must be displayed on the ROBOT and meet the following criteria:
A. consist of numerals at least 3.5 in. high, at least 0.5 in. in stroke width, and be black in color with a white background extending at least 1 in. from the edges of the numbering,
B. be positioned around the ROBOT such that an observer walking around the perimeter of the ROBOT can unambiguously tell the Team’s number from any point of view.

[BEGIN BLUE BOX]
The intent is that the Team’s number is clearly visible and unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS. Consider the numbers as the license plates for your ROBOT.
NOTE: Impact font, size 362pt., shown in Figure 4-1, meets the stroke and height requirements for all digits.

?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

It's not onerous or unreasonable, but how do you get this from:
?

You didn't update your Manual. 2/17 Update added a clarification to the blue box that said, in essence, that if a tether had to be followed to get to the numbers, the robot was in violation.

[ChuckDickerson]

From the sentence in the blue box you didn't quote:

"If an observer has to follow a tether to identify the ROBOT’s team number, that is considered not clearly visible and does not meet the requirements of R2."

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by EricH

You didn't update your Manual.

I need to remember to delete the old ones!

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

The design and strategy combinations on this game are far broader than average, certainly the best in my four years of FIRST, at a cost of spectator accessibility.

After being at a regional, I have to modify my remarks. The game was fully accessible to spectators. Sure, you had to explain the oddball scoring, but has there been an FRC game (at least recently) where you didn't? It was obvious that people were watching matches on the edge of their seat, even those whose team was not on the field. Every tall stack formed, and every item dropped, drew cheers or gasps from all over the audience. I believe also that this game has inspired more complete overhauls and total redesigns after stop build day than any other. Hearing the audience reaction to the "mosquito netting" noodle defense in Bayou Semi #2 was priceless, even though it proved of little value.

[cglrcng]

What is so hard about putting your REQUIRED license plates on the ramps or other robot pcs.? (Look at it this way....You actually "get to display your specific team # at least 4 more times,"....Nice and boldly!)

Hmmm, I think FIRST needs to develop the FIRST DMR (FIRST Department of Motorized Robots), at championships this year. Then add a nice license plate fee if other attached (tethered, leashed, extended), robot pcs. are missing ANY of their required Team # Plates. Make that fee high, give the $$$'s raised to some deserving charity.

The game is very exciting, and has many elements beyond the expected "Wherehouse Stacking" that many thought it would only be.