Week 2 Live Discussion

[The other Gabe]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

the amount of time its taking once everyone is off the field to start autonomous is crazy.

We had the same problem at PNW Auburn Mountainview last week

[dellagd]

Did anyone watching Pioneer Valley (NE) see what the match replay of SF6 was for?

[John Retkowski]

I believe our teams alliance played that match. There were significant field communication issues that hindered both sides auto. Every team was in the question box at the end of the match discussing with the head ref.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

As far as I know, 1114 has not run a co-op stack themselves in any match even though they generate an auto tote stack.

Actually, we don't have the ability to coopertate.

[Green Potato]

Originally Posted by SeanFitz

Is it just me, or are teams seeming to go for (and complete) the coopertition stacks less and less often? If so, why the big change from week 1 to 2?

They are going for them less often, and it's likely due to the dynamic of who really needs those co-op points.

-The best teams now realize that they don't need those points to seed high and be picked early, as co-op doesn't count in elims. Often, the top 4 alliance captains don't even finish in the top 10 in co-op.
-The teams that are on the bottom of the standings and need points desperately (averaging in the 30's to 40's or lower) often can't do co-op reliably, so they won't get it done either.
-A lot of teams who won't be captains, those obviously below #15 seed, don't go for co-op in the last few matches often to demonstrate their skills to alliance captains, again reducing the number of willing robots.

That, and you need to find 2 partners on opposing alliances to do co-op, and because of the reasons above, it just doesn't happen that often anymore. Going forward in week 3 and beyond, I see even fewer co-op stacks being formed, given what we've seen so far.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Green Potato

They are going for them less often, and it's likely due to the dynamic of who really needs those co-op points.

-The best teams now realize that they don't need those points to seed high and be picked early, as co-op doesn't count in elims. Often, the top 4 alliance captains don't even finish in the top 10 in co-op.
-The teams that are on the bottom of the standings and need points desperately (averaging in the 30's to 40's or lower) often can't do co-op reliably, so they won't get it done either.
-A lot of teams who won't be captains, those obviously below #15 seed, don't go for co-op in the last few matches often to demonstrate their skills to alliance captains, again reducing the number of willing robots.

I figured this would happen about this way around Week 6 of build. That last group is likely to co-op early, though, or try to, to see if they can get higher. The "bubble" teams (9-14 or so) will go for it every match if they can.

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Actually, we don't have the ability to coopertate.

I thought that might be the case.

[xman206]

Holy crap! Team 1114 is amazing, incredible, exciting to watch, and overall BAD $@#$@#$@#!!!!! That is a rockin' machine

[serenagh]

What's 1114's abilities been sofar? I'm assuming capped stacks out of the human player station- how many per match? Checked blue alliance, but don't see any videos.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Actually, we don't have the ability to coopertate.

That's what it looked like. Congrats this weekend. We learned a lot from y'all.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by serenagh

What's 1114's abilities been sofar? I'm assuming capped stacks out of the human player station- how many per match? Checked blue alliance, but don't see any videos.

1114 consistently scores 3 6-Stacks with a bin and noodle, and usually has about 30 seconds left to score extra totes. Their robot has a smokin' fast landfill collector and they usually clear the landfill up to the upside-down totes.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by serenagh

What's 1114's abilities been sofar? I'm assuming capped stacks out of the human player station- how many per match? Checked blue alliance, but don't see any videos.

Here is one of their practice matches. In addition to the abilities shown in the video, they can also right tipped RCs. I have also heard of a ramp attachment, although I have not personally seen it.

They seemed to be averaging about 3 6-stacks w/ RCs per match, which approximately accounts for their 120 point OPR.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I'm waiting to see a robot get AT-AT'd when a robot wraps the tether around the drive base

ok so far unless it was intentional/strategic,

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

and then a jedi runs onto the field

There's a G2,

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

and stabs the robot repeatedly.

and now a clear G26.

RED CARD

[Steven Donow]

All I* want from FIRST right now is the ability for events to swap positions of red and blue on the scoring display


*By "I" I mean the OCD inside of me

[PhilBot]

Thoughts on the game after our week 2 victory.

When the game was released, many of our team members were disappointed because of the lack of defense, claiming that it wasn’t really a “sport” without defense. This struck me as odd since we usually design high functioning robots that score well, unless we are defeated by heavy defense.

I maintained that there are MANY sports without defense, such as downhill skiing, just about all track and field events, gymnastics, figure skating (unless you include Nancy Carrigan), swimming, shooting, luge, and the list goes on. All of these events (individual or team) let the athletes reach the pinnacle of their chosen specialty without worrying about someone tripping them up. So why not FRC?

After taking our robot to the Greater Pittsburgh FRC Region, seeding in 9th place, captaining the #6 alliance and defeating the #1 alliance, I realized several things (not least of all that FIRST is brilliant).

1) The games were anything but boring. I don’t think that any prior games stand out as hugely more exciting (after 10 years of FRC). The crowds got a great show and seemed to be thoroughly enjoying the spectacle.

2) The fact that seed matches weren’t Won or Lost was amazing. There is nothing worse than having a stellar match and losing 100 to 102. The new system of simply totaling the scores eliminated the bitter pill of defeat along the way, and kept teams focusing on doing better next time to raise their averages.

3) The new scoring system enabled “REAL” ranks (based on team averages) to be generated in real time, without worrying how many matches each team has played. So after each match the system displayed how you were moving up or down the ranks.

4) Teams that did poorly at the beginning of qualifications could still improve and progressively raise their average all the way to the top. There was no artificial ceiling set by “losing” a match or two.

5) The coopertition stack concept worked extremely well to get teams talking to each other. You only needed to find one compatible team on each alliance to make a compatible pairing. The 20 / 40 point bonus was high enough to make it worthwhile spending the time.

6) In alliance selection, you didn’t have to worry about defense, so teams could focus on working together, and finding teams that complimented their capabilities, rather than needing to have a “defense bot” on their alliance to counter the opposition. So all the elimination matches looked more like the finals matches, where top teams ignored each other and just went for it. Isn’t this how we WANT life and business to operate?

7) Running the Quarter-Finals and Semi-Finals using the same point-average system was brilliant. No longer was the 8th seed forced to be humiliated by the 1st seed. I never understood that system designed to maintain the original seed order. Now all 8 alliances get to start from scratch and show their capabilities and endurance, just like Olympic events.

This was REAL competition.

So in the end, to me at least, this year’s game seemed just as exciting, fairer, and allowed less opportunity to gripe about bad seed matches. I think FIRST nailed it.