Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015

[IKE]

Both weekends, I have noticed a lot of teams with fuses not properly seated into the Power Distribution Boards. It is really easy to think you have them installed, when in reality they need to be pushed in another 1/8 inch.
See page 13 of the PDP guide.
http://crosstheroadelectronics.com/PDP%20User's%20Guide.pdf

One of the Waterford event Championships had some intermittent radio in their final match. Upon further inspection, their fuse had started to wiggle loose as they were not properly seated. As this was their final match, I do not know for certain that this was related to the radio issue, but it very wll may have been.

I had a CTRE rep at my first district event that checked these on all the robots, but I missed checking these myself until Saturday at my second event. When they are partially inserted, the robot works just fine and may never exhibt a problem. But an impact like hitting some totes, a wall, or the general vibration of driving around on Omni wheels can cause them to wiggle loose if they are not properly installed in the first place.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Ike,
Thanks for the reminder. Everyone, the fuses are properly inserted when they are nearly flush with the surrounding plastic of the PDP. Please push in on all fuses and breakers on the PDP before you compete.

[ozrien]

Both weekends, I have noticed a lot of teams with fuses not properly seated into the Power Distribution Boards. It is really easy to think you have them installed, when in reality they need to be pushed in another 1/8 inch.
See page 13 of the PDP guide.
http://crosstheroadelectronics.com/PDP%20User's%20Guide.pdf

Additionally check out page 7. I've seen a few teams forget to place the lock-washers in PDP (battery harness). Without them the screws will loosen over time.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by IKE

Both weekends, I have noticed a lot of teams with fuses not properly seated into the Power Distribution Boards. It is really easy to think you have them installed, when in reality they need to be pushed in another 1/8 inch.
See page 13 of the PDP guide.
http://crosstheroadelectronics.com/PDP%20User's%20Guide.pdf

One of the Waterford event Championships had some intermittent radio in their final match. Upon further inspection, their fuse had started to wiggle loose as they were not properly seated. As this was their final match, I do not know for certain that this was related to the radio issue, but it very wll may have been.

I had a CTRE rep at my first district event that checked these on all the robots, but I missed checking these myself until Saturday at my second event. When they are partially inserted, the robot works just fine and may never exhibt a problem. But an impact like hitting some totes, a wall, or the general vibration of driving around on Omni wheels can cause them to wiggle loose if they are not properly installed in the first place.

There was a robot at the event that I was at this weekend that did not have their fuses installed properly who was having a loss of connection when they had an impact or went over the scoring platform at speed. Installing the fuses properly seemed to fix the issue.

I've noticed that it seems like the terminals for the fuse are not centered perfectly in all of the PDPs. This leads to the fuse body bottoming out on the case so it seems that it is fully inserted. Applying a little sideways force while pressing down allows the fuse to get past the case and be fully inserted.

[FrankJ]

Slightly different subject of unexpected Q&As

Q429 Q. We are seeking clarification for R4. If a robot has two interchangeable mechanisms such that only one of them can be on the robot at a time. Would that robot be able to be counted under two weights for two different configurations, One weight for mechanism A and one weight for mechanism B? Or would both mechanisms need to be included together in the final robot weight?
FRC4476 on 2015-02-27
A. If you're intent is to go through Inspection once, everything must be included, and thus under the weight limit (per R4). Alternatively, you can pass Inspection with the first element, but if you want to switch it out for the second element, you must be reinspected with only that second element and compete with that element (per T10). If you want to go back to the first element, you must be reinspected with the first element again.

This says you can reuse mechanisms pulled off the robot, that would exceed the weight limit if you have the robot reinspected. Different than what I think this was generally interpreted in years past. Another Q&A I would have printed if you plans include this.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Slightly different subject of unexpected Q&As


This says you can reuse mechanisms pulled off the robot, that would exceed the weight limit if you have the robot reinspected. Different than what I think this was generally interpreted in years past. Another Q&A I would have printed if you plans include this.

That is a very dramatic departure from the precedent set in 2013 with the full court blockers. I'm wondering if this is just a mistake on the GDCs part.

Edit: doesn't seem like it was a mistake as it's confirmed in Q440

We are already reinspected before every match any way since, we almost always drill at least one hole or add one zip tie. So it just looks inspectors are going to be very busy at events from now on.

[Ed Sparks]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

That is a very dramatic departure from the precedent set in 2013 with the full court blockers. I'm wondering if this is just a mistake on the GDCs part.

Edit: doesn't seem like it was a mistake as it's confirmed in Q440...

Looks like I'll be retiring as an inspector real soon ........ The pay isn't that good anyway.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks

Looks like I'll be retiring as an inspector real soon ........ The pay isn't that good anyway.

Say it ain't so, Ed.

I agree this "change" is going to make a lot of work that (IMO) should not be necessary, both for volunteers and competitors. The veneer is wearing thinner every year on the myth of six week build.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I agree this "change" is going to make a lot of work that (IMO) should not be necessary, both for volunteers and competitors. The veneer is wearing thinner every year on the myth of six week build.

So a team has a 4-match turn-back and decides to make a change. 2.5 matches in, they get it done and now expect the inspectors to do the re-inspection. In time for their match. Right.

And, as soon as a team starts making modifications, an inspector should tell the head ref that their sticker is null and void. If they come out without the LRI confirming re-inspection, the whole alliance gets a Red Card. Ouch.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

So a team has a 4-match turn-back and decides to make a change. 2.5 matches in, they get it done and now expect the inspectors to do the re-inspection. In time for their match. Right.

And, as soon as a team starts making modifications, an inspector should tell the head ref that their sticker is null and void. If they come out without the LRI confirming re-inspection, the whole alliance gets a Red Card. Ouch.

Oh boy....

As an inspector, I prefer to go out of my way to give the kids a good experience, not look out for opportunities to yell "Gotcha! Red card!"

[rich2202]

If I were an RI, and a team told me they planned to switch between Part A and Part B, I would have them weight with Part A, and then Part B, and note the weights next to a description of the part.

Then, when they came for subsequent reinspections, I would look for the part, check their weight, and if everything seems in order, note which is the current configuration/date/time, and clear them for competition.

That way, we know which is their last configuration when inspected, and if they show up on the field with the wrong configuration ... it is their problem.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Oh boy....

As an inspector, I prefer to go out of my way to give the kids a good experience, not look out for opportunities to yell "Gotcha! Red card!"

No intent of Gotcha whatsoever. In fact, this would be preventing the other 2 teams in the alliance from getting a Red Card, since they have absolutely no way of knowing that the transformer team's inspection was temporarily suspended. If the LRI and HR keep in constant communication, the Red Card will be avoided, not made easier to get.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

No intent of Gotcha whatsoever. In fact, this would be preventing the other 2 teams in the alliance from getting a Red Card, since they have absolutely no way of knowing that the transformer team's inspection was temporarily suspended. If the LRI and HR keep in constant communication, the Red Card will be avoided, not made easier to get.

Aye. If a team isn't re-inspected, and this is known BEFORE the match, the OTHER side of T8 comes into play--the team doesn't participate in the match, including their HP. This gives only the team in question a Disqualification (Section 5.5.3, Part D) which assigns no points, rather than a red card. (A Red Card is a Disqualification, but a Disqualification is not necessarily a Red Card.)

And I agree, we're not out there to "Gotcha" teams. If it's a quick fix, I'd rather have the team fix it quickly than apply any sort of DQ or RC--just works out better.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

So here is the next edition of the list (based on the first two weeks)...
1. Please make sure you have your Bag and Tag paperwork with you when you drop your robot off for your event. Inspectors want to check it for accuracy prior to letting you open the bag and begin work at your event. If it is in the bag (not visible), in your mentor's back pocket (who is not coming) or on the workbench back at your build space, it is going to invoke a delay while we process the non-compliance form. Attaching it to the bag with a big, double handle paper clip works very well.
2. Teams have been bagging their robot with the battery in the robot and connected. This is pretty dangerous practice. When packing your robot for the next event, do not put your battery in the robot, please.
3. Inspectors need to see the electronics during inspection. Do not hide them or cover them with conformal coatings. Mounting them upside down is also difficult to inspect and unreliable for operation.
4. You must have the latest firmware installed on your robot. Under the current version of Inspection checklist, these are the versions you should have.
Driver Station – 08021500 or newer <R80> (Note the version number is a date in the format of, DD/MM/YY00)
roboRIO – v23 and 2.1.0f3 <R45>
Talon SRX – v.28 for PWM, v1.01 for CAN <R41, R59>
Jaguars – v109 <R59> for CAN
PCM – v1.62 <R60> if pneumatics are used.
PDP – v1.37 <R61>
Yes this is a repeat, but many of you didn't listen in week 2. The PDP CAN must be connected to the RoboRio CAN.
5. There are two fuses in the PDP. While they may appear to be fully inserted, they are often not. Please be sure to push them down firmly. The top of the fuse should be nearly the same height as the Weidmuller connectors that are mounted next to each one. When not fully inserted these to become intermittent, resetting the radio and/or the RoboRio.

As always, ask your LRI if you have any questions. Do not assume you know the answer. Good Luck everyone.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

So here is the next edition of the list (based on the first two weeks)...
1. Please make sure you have your Bag and Tag paperwork with you when you drop your robot off for your event. Inspectors want to check it for accuracy prior to letting you open the bag and begin work at your event. If it is in the bag (not visible), in your mentor's back pocket (who is not coming) or on the workbench back at your build space, it is going to invoke a delay while we process the non-compliance form. Attaching it to the bag with a big, double handle paper clip works very well.
2. Teams have been bagging their robot with the battery in the robot and connected. This is pretty dangerous practice. When packing your robot for the next event, do not put your battery in the robot, please.
3. Inspectors need to see the electronics during inspection. Do not hide them or cover them with conformal coatings. Mounting them upside down is also difficult to inspect and unreliable for operation.
4. You must have the latest firmware installed on your robot. Under the current version of Inspection checklist, these are the versions you should have.
Driver Station – 08021500 or newer <R80> (Note the version number is a date in the format of, DD/MM/YY00)
roboRIO – v23 and 2.1.0f3 <R45>
Talon SRX – v.28 for PWM, v1.01 for CAN <R41, R59>
Jaguars – v109 <R59> for CAN
PCM – v1.62 <R60> if pneumatics are used.
PDP – v1.37 <R61>
Yes this is a repeat, but many of you didn't listen in week 2. The PDP CAN must be connected to the RoboRio CAN.
5. There are two fuses in the PDP. While they may appear to be fully inserted, they are often not. Please be sure to push them down firmly. The top of the fuse should be nearly the same height as the Weidmuller connectors that are mounted next to each one. When not fully inserted these to become intermittent, resetting the radio and/or the RoboRio.

As always, ask your LRI if you have any questions. Do not assume you know the answer. Good Luck everyone.

Al, you should have waited until after the update. The firmware requirement for the roboRIO was removed. The image must still be v23.