Tying back hair in the pits at competition

[SousVide]

There's a bigger problem with the social tact norms - *a lot* of students simply do not understand this. Every single year, I have to tell the students on the team to separate themselves and not hug, touch, massage their team mates or people they meet. These people think that everyone are friendly and welcomes all of these social intrusions - like everybody they see on TV/Netflix/whatever else. It takes a while for them to understand that the workspace is completely different from their personal friend space. Hopefully, they learn that by the time Competition comes around...

I have a rule about keeping arms length from people and making sure people are separated with their personal space... sometimes that's hard to do when you have to work on the robot though. And the pit, it's hard enough to squeeze the fab, safety, marketing, and the programming team into the same 10x10 space.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by SousVide

There's a bigger problem with the social tact norms - *a lot* of students simply do not understand this. Every single year, I have to tell the students on the team to separate themselves and not hug, touch, massage their team mates or people they meet. These people think that everyone are friendly and welcomes all of these social intrusions - like everybody they see on TV/Netflix/whatever else.

Our head coach has had a chat with the varsity (that is, those going to the venue on Thursday and Friday) shortly before competition every year. This is one of the topics, because our team is rather huggy (being founded by Gixxy, could it be anything else?).
Another big point every year is like unto it. The rule is - we are family - don't let a stranger harass your brother or sister, sexually or otherwise.

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by kdj

This is a very major pet peeve of mine, and not sure where or how to address it. Anyone whose hair is long enough that when they walk by or bend over a robot, it touches it, should be tied back so that cannot happen. Preventable injuries are just as likely from this as those prevented by safety glasses OR closed toed shoes. I saw at least three to four people pushing robots at Central Valley regional last weekend where hair was definitely touching robots.

At every event, the first thing I do on arrival is go visit 1492 Team Caution and get about two feet of caution tape. You know the stuff, 3-4 inches wide, yellow, black letters. I then ask one of the young ladies on our team to tie a nice bow in my ponytail using said tape. Works like a charm, keeps everything behind me and out of the machines.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Part of a safety culture is recognizing appropriate precautions. The only people that really need their hair tied back are people actively working on a robot. Anybody not actively working on an enabled robot should be far enough away that the robot cannot reach out and grab them. If not they are not working safely. A crowded pit is more dangerous than loose hair.

Not to say tying your hair back as matter of policy isn't a good idea.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Long hair in the pits isn't that bad. Long hair while using power tools or having your head stuck in a robot is.

On our team, we have a general rule about hair - it must be safely tied back of your in the machine shop, using power tools, or using soldering irons (I *really* hate the smell of burned hair). This extends to the pit at competition... If your working on the robot, you need to have your hair properly stowed. If you're there programming, or as a pit presenter for judges, or just talking to spectators, it just isn't important.

And anyone that forgets to bring something to tie their hair back with gets a zip tie. It may not be a super fashion statement, but it's effective!

Having your hair tied back when you're in the same room as power tools (or a robot) is generally a good idea. While the immediate risk is less for anyone not working actively with them, you never know what situations may arise very quickly. This is especially true in an area as cramped and crowded as the pits at a competition. If an event occurs that forces people to move rapidly (say someone trips or loses control of a power tool), they may suddenly change from being at a safe distance to in a precarious position. Always tie your hair back. The benefit of free flowing hair does not outweigh the potential hazard, however unlikely.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Libby K

It's a serious invasion of personal space, which is something I've noticed our community is sometimes pretty bad at (mascots, 'free hugs', etc.), and it has to stop.

The whole 'free hugs' thing is so cringey.

[alicen]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

I actually get a lot of flak for wearing my normal glasses even though I got them so that they are rated for construction sites. They come with side shields and everything yet somehow someone always comments about it. Does anyone know if we are expected to wear traditional looking safety glasses if our prescription ones are already up to par?

I've never seen that happen before, but since at Peachtree/GSCR probably half of the refs and scoring table all wear standard glasses with side shields, it's hard to get on anyone else. We even loaned a pair of side shields out to a student on a drive team during elims at GSCR!

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Having your hair tied back when you're in the same room as power tools (or a robot) is generally a good idea. While the immediate risk is less for anyone not working actively with them, you never know what situations may arise very quickly. This is especially true in an area as cramped and crowded as the pits at a competition. If an event occurs that forces people to move rapidly (say someone trips or loses control of a power tool), they may suddenly change from being at a safe distance to in a precarious position. Always tie your hair back. The benefit of free flowing hair does not outweigh the potential hazard, however unlikely.

Isn't this true regardless of the hair style? Someone who has hair tied back but hanging down to their waist is in just as much danger from a sudden event behind them as someone without hair tied back is to one in front of them.

The reason people tie their hair back is to keep it from hanging down in front of them while they work - if it hangs, it obstructs vision and dangles in the area they are working in. It is NOT done to handle sudden situations that may occur around them. If we want to concern ourselves with those situations, we would need to have anyone with long hair put it up in a tight bun or wear a shower cap to keep it contained.

[SousVide]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Isn't this true regardless of the hair style? Someone who has hair tied back but hanging down to their waist is in just as much danger from a sudden event behind them as someone without hair tied back is to one in front of them.

The reason people tie their hair back is to keep it from hanging down in front of them while they work - if it hangs, it obstructs vision and dangles in the area they are working in. It is NOT done to handle sudden situations that may occur around them. If we want to concern ourselves with those situations, we would need to have anyone with long hair put it up in a tight bun or wear a shower cap to keep it contained.

I hope people do in fact understand this and have the long hair not just simply tied back, but contained. Our folks know to contain it or they need to tuck it into their shirts.

[robochick1319]

If someone trips with a drill or other equipment in their hand, everyone (long hair, short hair, no hair) is going to have a safety issue.

I think asking people (not just girls) to tie hair back is a good idea. But there should also be efforts made to eliminate the other hazards. If someone tripping with a drill gets the drill caught in another person's hair, odds are they could get the drill caught in the person's shirt/body. That affects everyone.

Tie your hair back and if it still obstructs your work area, then put it in a bun. I have always had long hair and usually pulling it back is adequate. If it's not, then it goes in a bun. But telling girls to wear hair nets or tuck their ponytails in their shirts (which doesn't work super well) because there might be someone tripping behind them just seems like overkill. (Not to mention alienating to girls.)

Eliminate trip hazards by making your work area less crowded. Don't rush. Use the safety devices with your tools. That should be more than sufficient.

[JamesCH95]

I posit that one should have their hair tied back in any area where safety glasses are required, whether or not they are using a power tool at that moment. The fact is that there are a lot of potential hazards: other people using power tools, robots moving/actuating, etc. No one can promise to have perfect situation awareness and avoid all active robots and power tools!

I suggest that rather than 'desensitizing' people to tying their hair back that we make it a habit: you put your safety glasses on, you tie your hair back, you control lose clothing, you take off your jewelry, etc.

It has taken a bit of concerted effort, but I remove my wedding band any time I put my safety glasses on. I know that it is unsafe to have a ring on around robots and power tools. Although I'm not always using power tools or interacting with robots I never know when I might have to make a quick grab or push to keep someone/something else safe. (These situations do not occur frequently, but they do happen, who here hasn't hit the power switch (or similar) in a hurry before?)

Edit: [RANT] Also, please be gracious and professional if someone points out something you're doing that is potentially unsafe (hair, clothing, jewelry, etc), do not become defensive or sarcastic. They are doing so because they do not want you to be hurt, not to inconvenience you. I was VERY annoyed when students and mentors on other teams rolled their eyes at me when I asked them to put their safety glasses back on in the pits. [/RANT]

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

If someone trips with a drill or other equipment in their hand, everyone (long hair, short hair, no hair) is going to have a safety issue.

I think asking people (not just girls) to tie hair back is a good idea. But there should also be efforts made to eliminate the other hazards. If someone tripping with a drill gets the drill caught in another person's hair, odds are they could get the drill caught in the person's shirt/body. That affects everyone.

Hi everyone (first post!)

The scenario I picture is this: Someone in your pit is using (safely) a power tool such as a drill or sander. You are standing well back, observing, and your hair is not secured because you figure you are standing far enough back for it not to be a hazard. Another team is moving their robot in the alleyway behind you. Suddenly, their robot slips off the cart and starts to come crashing down where you are standing. You quickly step out of the way, with room to spare - but your long hair flies into the path of the sander.

We could play all sorts of "what if" scenarios (maybe you shouldn't be standing around observing, maybe the drill station should be in the back corner of your pit, etc.) but the point stands - we must always be prepared for the unexpected.

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Hi everyone (first post!)

The scenario I picture is this: Someone in your pit is using (safely) a power tool such as a drill or sander. You are standing well back, observing, and your hair is not secured because you figure you are standing far enough back for it not to be a hazard. Another team is moving their robot in the alleyway behind you. Suddenly, their robot slips off the cart and starts to come crashing down where you are standing. You quickly step out of the way, with room to spare - but your long hair flies into the path of the sander.

We could play all sorts of "what if" scenarios (maybe you shouldn't be standing around observing, maybe the drill station should be in the back corner of your pit, etc.) but the point stands - we must always be prepared for the unexpected.

Yea, that's a lot of what-if scenarios. I mean I really can't picture a scenario where that wouldn't be easily preventable by reducing other hazards.

a) design carts where robots can't "slip off" and have robot escorts there to ensure safe transportation

b) use power tools well inside the pit where they can't be easily accessed by people in the aisle. Remember we often have visitors at these events who stand just outside the pits.

Besides, how really likely is it that even if you moved out of the way of a falling robot that your hair would swing far enough into the line of a drill? It's really, really unlikely. It's more likely that someone's clothing would get caught before hair would.

I just find it odd hat there is this fascination with discussing tying hair back to the point of "let's all wear hairnets and tuck into our shirts" (both of which could STILL get caught in the drill in your scenario) but there is almost no talk of other really serious and highly prevalent issues.

Like for one, robots should never be run in the pits. If your robot is in the pits and is ON it should be on a cart where the wheels can't run. That way if you lose control and the wheels move, you won't run someone over. THAT scenario has actually happened to our team when another team was "practicing" with their robot, lost control, and literally RAN one of our mentors over.

Can we start that thread?

[Lil' Lavery]

robochick, just because there are other safety measures that should be in place doesn't mean you can ignore the ones about hair. Yes, these scenarios are unlikely and (hopefully) preventable, but that doesn't excuse you from taking proper precautions. These recommendations regarding hair are not being made up. They match with OSHA's suggestions and just about every professional environment involving tools or machinery. I say this as someone who sports hair past my shoulders.

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

robochick, just because there are other safety measures that should be in place doesn't mean you can ignore the ones about hair. Yes, these scenarios are unlikely and (hopefully) preventable, but that doesn't excuse you from taking proper precautions. These recommendations regarding hair are not being made up. They match with OSHA's suggestions and just about every professional environment involving tools or machinery. I say this as someone who sports hair past my shoulders.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I was just surprised that a debate over ponytails vs. buns was getting so much attention when other more dangerous and common issues go ignored.

OSHA does recommend tying hair back but does say that ponytails are acceptable. Like I said earlier, I don't see the problem with letting people (with hair longer than 4 inches) tie their hair in a ponytail most of the time and then opt for a bun for more up-close, high-risk situations.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

Like for one, robots should never be run in the pits. If your robot is in the pits and is ON it should be on a cart where the wheels can't run. That way if you lose control and the wheels move, you won't run someone over. THAT scenario has actually happened to our team when another team was "practicing" with their robot, lost control, and literally RAN one of our mentors over.

Agreed, they should always be up on blocks anywhere outside the field or a practice area. Even then, everyone needs to be aware of their surroundings... I was at a practice field at one point where another team was trying to control their robot and it was driving erratically and nearly mowing down his own teammates. I stepped well back...

I'm new to FIRST and the FRC experience so I am very much learning by "trial by fire" but one thing I do really appreciate is all the attention to safety and cleanliness.