Safety Issue: Robots Moving in Pits

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

Yes, so put it on the floor of the practice field.

Practice fields are sometimes backed up for days. It's completely impractical to expect every team to be able to just go to the practice field spontaneously whenever they have to do a simple test.

How about we don't outlaw perfectly acceptable, and necessary, practices because of a few foolish teams?

We, and many others, can't test our tote collection and lift systems without putting the robot on the ground. If you raise the robot the mechanisms don't work. We can disable our drive code. We always have someone hovering over the space bar to e-stop the robot. We could even unplug the speed controllers if we have to. We have safe practices, there's no need for blanket, overly broad rules that hinder teams' ability to do what they came to the regional to do.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

How about we don't outlaw perfectly acceptable, and necessary, practices because of a few foolish teams?

This goes back to my opinion on this whole thing, which is, do what you need to do, but do it carefully and safely... BUT if you are foolish and/or careless and your robot careens out of your pit and hurts someone, there should be strong consequences.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Practice fields are sometimes backed up for days. It's completely impractical to expect every team to be able to just go to the practice field spontaneously whenever they have to do a simple test.

I made this point in a another topic.

If your robots are large and your game piece can fall/open into a larger area perhaps the venues should provide floor space not on the practice field to run such tests in a less cramped area than the pits.

Surely open floor space without a practice field would be easier to get.
I wouldn't think most teams would spend the entire competition to run these tests.

This year is a fine example. A robot not in the transport configuration can be pretty large. Especially if it's one of these tethered robots. It quickly gets to be an issue to fit a simple test into the pit area or even the walk area in front of your pit area.

[jman4747]

Simple VI to decide if it is okay to enable a robot at competition (in the strict context of the initial topic).

[robochick1319]

[quote=Andrew Lawrence;1457319]This entire argument is based on one's arbitrary definition of safety. If I see something as safe, then none of this applies to me. Likewise if I see something as unsafe, it all applies. The people arguing for stricter safety rules see every potential danger as unsafe, and that's their definition of the word, that's perfectly alright. The people who say such a change isn't needed see the same small potential dangers as acceptable, yet unlikely risks, and therefore view the whole thing as safe - that's their definition of the word, and likewise, that is perfectly alright.

There are clear safety hazards (such as launching frisbees into the air in the pits) that everyone can agree on as being unsafe. Anything we all agree on also happens to already be a rule (funny how that happens). The gray areas of ambiguity vary from team to team, and as such, I would suggest actions taken on these issues should be based on each individual team. As the age old saying goes, "You run your team, and I'll run mine, and we'll all be okay as long as nobody is hurting the other".[/QUOTE]

Yes, but when you run your robot in the pit, lose control and hit a team member from ANOTHER team then all teams become concerned about how you run your team.

I guess I would just ask everyone to really, really think if there is another way you could test your robot without engaging the wheels (lift them off the ground or disconnect them).

This thread has shown that I am in the minority on the opinion that this is serious risk to teams. I hope there are no future incidents that prove me right.

[xXhunter47Xx]

FWIW having a modular electronics system can easily solve this issue.
If you use powerpoles for connecting motors (which if you are using SRX/Victor SP motor controllers you should be) it's all a matter of unplugging them.
Tada, robot can be on floor and you shouldn't need four-five people around the driver station in case it decides to emancipate itself from the pit.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

...when you run your robot in the pit, lose control and hit a team member from ANOTHER team...

I think we all agree that running someone over with your robot is bad. I think most of agree that it is very bad. But I also think most of us believe that we have enough reasonable safeguards and procedures in place to make it a highly unlikely occurrence.

I myself have seen more people run into by robot carts than by robots being driven in a pit. I'm not about to suggest that we stop using carts.

[who716]

Originally Posted by bkahl

So this is probably a bad idea...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa1lz-9cCRQ&t=98

personally i think this is perfectly safe they got there safety glasses on :-)

[who716]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

LOL I didn't think my argument was "but safety!" I thought it was more let's mitigate the risk by putting in a basic safeguard. Test it, sure. We test ours in the pits. But test it in such a way that it doesn't pose a serious risk to other teams in the pits.

I don't think having a robot hit men, women, and children in the pits is an acceptable risk. The severity is high and the likelihood is high and that seems unacceptable.

And as cliche as it is, common sense isn't so common. If it were, I wouldn't have had to start this thread based on previous incidents.

i don't understand the serious risk part, its not that serious of a risk just control your robot which all drive teams are trained to do

[who716]

[quote=robochick1319;1457350]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

This entire argument is based on one's arbitrary definition of safety. If I see something as safe, then none of this applies to me. Likewise if I see something as unsafe, it all applies. The people arguing for stricter safety rules see every potential danger as unsafe, and that's their definition of the word, that's perfectly alright. The people who say such a change isn't needed see the same small potential dangers as acceptable, yet unlikely risks, and therefore view the whole thing as safe - that's their definition of the word, and likewise, that is perfectly alright.

There are clear safety hazards (such as launching frisbees into the air in the pits) that everyone can agree on as being unsafe. Anything we all agree on also happens to already be a rule (funny how that happens). The gray areas of ambiguity vary from team to team, and as such, I would suggest actions taken on these issues should be based on each individual team. As the age old saying goes, "You run your team, and I'll run mine, and we'll all be okay as long as nobody is hurting the other".[/QUOTE]

Yes, but when you run your robot in the pit, lose control and hit a team member from ANOTHER team then all teams become concerned about how you run your team.

I guess I would just ask everyone to really, really think if there is another way you could test your robot without engaging the wheels (lift them off the ground or disconnect them).

This thread has shown that I am in the minority on the opinion that this is serious risk to teams. I hope there are no future incidents that prove me right.

it shouldn't matter how someone runs there team, if someone is all about winning that's fine with me, its only an issue when the parents and faculty disagree with how it being run

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by who716

it shouldn't matter how someone runs there team, if someone is all about winning that's fine with me, its only an issue when the parents and faculty disagree with how it being run

I think you may have misunderstood my point. I don't care how you run your team so long as the decisions you make for your team do not negatively impact my team (i.e. cause a serious safety risk).

You be you, let me be me, but let's all do it...safely? (rhyming not intended, I swear)

[SousVide]

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

I think you may have misunderstood my point. I don't care how you run your team so long as the decisions you make for your team do not negatively impact my team (i.e. cause a serious safety risk).

You be you, let me be me, but let's all do it...safely? (rhyming not intended, I swear)

Generally I don't disagree with what you've said in this thread, and not even the semi-alarmist way you presented the context (but maybe I misread it since I was reading at work during a compile).

I would prefer proper e-stop training over imposing limitations, however. They (whoever they are) made e-stop the biggest button on the keyboard - it can't be missed if someone in the know is halfway paying attention. If that someone is by the laptop when the robot's enabled, then the risk is mitigated into negligibility.

[KosmicKhaos]

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Practice fields are sometimes backed up for days. It's completely impractical to expect every team to be able to just go to the practice field spontaneously whenever they have to do a simple test.

How about we don't outlaw perfectly acceptable, and necessary, practices because of a few foolish teams?

We, and many others, can't test our tote collection and lift systems without putting the robot on the ground. If you raise the robot the mechanisms don't work. We can disable our drive code. We always have someone hovering over the space bar to e-stop the robot. We could even unplug the speed controllers if we have to. We have safe practices, there's no need for blanket, overly broad rules that hinder teams' ability to do what they came to the regional to do.

The point of this discussion (at least to me) is to explore ways of safely testing your robot. If everybody takes sufficient precautions so run away robots do not happen, then the powers that be will not need to make a rule against it. A couple of incidents and rules will happen.

As others have noted one basic safety rule is being sure the operator is ready to use the disable button the instant something unexpected happens.