Biggest Threat is our Principal - Please Help!

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by robomentor

he told me to stop bullying him.

The best answer here would have been something like "OK, if you stop bullying the team." Maybe not the most politic, but I would have loved to been at that "Harper Valley PTA" meeting.

As a bottom line, it sounds like the team is at least financially capable of operating independently of the school. I recommend that you set yourself up to do just that in case things go further downhill, while continuing to try to make things work within the school framework.

When our team formed just a few years ago, some of the more fail-safe thinking founding mentors (NASA and NAVY employees, mostly) decided to legally create a "booster club". This club is incorporated to be legally and financially independent of the school, apart from the statement in our charter which specifies that should we disband, any remaining funds in the club will be provided to the school; this, along with other statements in our charter and by-laws, qualifies us to be a 501 (c) (3) educational corporation. The great majority of our team's donors actually contribute to the booster club; I believe that only our government-agency sponsors give directly to our school account. We have enjoyed ever-increasing support from our sports-centric school administration, and our principal has turned the corner and understands us to be a sport rather than a club. We have no intention of ever becoming separate from the school! On the other hand, we have the means to do so should the situation change. Our three biggest dependencies on the school are (in approximate decreasing order of importance):

• "Field Trip" absence excuse for competition
• build and practice space
• A community in which to recruit members

We know that 1912 (whose schools are located in the same zip code as ours) managed to survive many years in a rather hostile school environment; they used sponsor-provided build space and had to recruit covertly.

The bottom line is that if the will and dedication are strong enough, a team business plan can be engineered to be strong in the face of adversity, just as a robot can.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

The best answer here would have been something like "OK, if you stop bullying the team." Maybe not the most politic, but I would have loved to been at that "Harper Valley PTA" meeting.

As a bottom line, it sounds like the team is at least financially capable of operating independently of the school. I recommend that you set yourself up to do just that in case things go further downhill, while continuing to try to make things work within the school framework.

When our team formed just a few years ago, some of the more fail-safe thinking founding mentors (NASA and NAVY employees, mostly) decided to legally create a "booster club". This club is incorporated to be legally and financially independent of the school, apart from the statement in our charter which specifies that should we disband, any remaining funds in the club will be provided to the school; this, along with other statements in our charter and by-laws, qualifies us to be a 501 (c) (3) educational corporation. The great majority of our team's donors actually contribute to the booster club; I believe that only our government-agency sponsors give directly to our school account. We have enjoyed ever-increasing support from our sports-centric school administration, and our principal has turned the corner and understands us to be a sport rather than a club. We have no intention of ever becoming separate from the school! On the other hand, we have the means to do so should the situation change. Our three biggest dependencies on the school are (in approximate decreasing order of importance):

• "Field Trip" absence excuse for competition
• build and practice space
• A community in which to recruit members

We know that 1912 (whose schools are located in the same zip code as ours) managed to survive many years in a rather hostile school environment; they used sponsor-provided build space and had to recruit covertly.

The bottom line is that if the will and dedication are strong enough, a team business plan can be engineered to be strong in the face of adversity, just as a robot can.

I would, warn however, that schools tend to get upset when robotics teams separate, especially in some hostile situations. I've heard of schools taking possession of all tools and robots in the build space as well as seizing of all funds because of this. It's just a caution to expect that kind of thing if you choose to separate.

[philso]

I spoke with a teacher here in Houston who was running FLL programs and was having trouble with the school administration (probably not as bad as you are having). She did have a lot of interest from the students and parents. She was able to get the parents to organize and lobby the school and demonstrate their high level of interest. Fortunately, the message got through and the school changed it's mind. At that time I spoke with her, she was only teaching robotics classes and was looking for a teacher to take over teaching some of those classes so she could return to her original job at the school, teaching biology. I hope your team can have a "happy ending" something like this one too.

[FrankJ]

At the end of the day it is better to make a friend than to win a war. It seems you already have an adversarial relationship. Maybe find a mutual friend that could find out what the real issues the principal has & address them?


The problem with property and separating the team for the school is the club (teams) property actually belongs to the school in many cases regardless where the funds actually came from. Public schools especially have rules they have to follow in disposing of excess property.

[JesseK]

My recommendations, which have helped us:

1.) Start a 501(c)3. If you're small-budget (<$50k) and low-scope, they're fairly straightforward to do along the lines of a high school band. Even if there isn't a conflict with school administration, having a self-controlled account can help remove roadblocks to things like outreach when the school is unable to deliver on time.

2.) Coming back with any kind of technical success at the Regional could help the principal see some immediate impact. Work your relationships early on Thursday and figure out what niche your team can fill which would make you a lock as a pick for elims. I definitely agree that the principal should attend.

3.) Lobby the community with hard facts on your team's alumni: % of kids who have graduated college and have a steady job, etc. Leverage the FIRST scholarship availability vs sports. The community will back you if they see these numbers. you shouldn't have to conflate them at all since they're naturally a big draw.

4.) Once you've done 1-3, conflicting views with the principal could become inconsequential. The community will drive where the discretionary money is spent (or they'll lobby for a new Principal) and you should have their backing. There are always parents who live vicariously through their kids (who also seem to have the loudest voices), but sheer volume of support will overcome that.

[STreese]

It sounds like you have gotten some good advice from the other posters. It seems like schools are usually lukewarm supporters of the robotics teams generally; but I have been fortunate to be associated with teams that were able to develop reasonable support. The main things I've seen that seemed to make a difference:

(1) Having the booster club as a 501(c)3 entity enables some flexibility. Many (maybe most) teams build out of garages and other non-school sites. The separate booster club enables you to have some independence. Some companies will only donate to the school. Still, there are several successful non-school teams that I know about - sponsored by Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, and home-schoolers.

(2) If you can get the principal and other school administrators to come to a competition, that almost always turns their attitude around. In your case, it sounds like you may need to get to the real issue. Maybe it can be overcome easily, if you know what it is. It is better if you can work with the school, however. I'd also say don't be perceived as a financial burden on the school.

(3) You can get the community on your side and get some PR for the school with some outreach activities. We do a lot of demos at companies, elementary schools, and shopping areas - featuring the school prominantly. (It also helps to win a few trophies - there are plenty of categories.)

Persuation and demonstration seem to work better than confrontation on these things.

[Cheesycakester]

I just want to echo something Philso said earlier: parents have a lot of power in swaying your school and school board's opinions - their opinions probably have more weight than any FRC statistic you can pull up. Rally the troops!

[dv/dt]

You may also want to ask some of your sponsors to talk to the school board. They represent the community and I'm sure they have strong reasons from a business perspective on why they support your team. School boards usually listen to local businesses and could then nudge your principal in that direction.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

At the end of the day it is better to make a friend than to win a war. It seems you already have an adversarial relationship. Maybe find a mutual friend that could find out what the real issues the principal has & address them?

I think this is key. Whenever a person feels strongly about something, there is a reason. Whether that reason is legitimate or whether it stems from personal opinions, politics, whatever, is a whole other question and will be a factor in determining whether you will be able to change their mind.

"Forcing" someone to change is only going to cause further aggravation. You may have won the battle, but now you've started a war. There will be bitterness, grudges, maybe even plays for revenge.

"Convincing" someone to change is the way to go, IF you can do it, but you'll need to understand exactly what is going on first.

[jimwick]

For what it's worth, the idea of going independent can be a good one.

We have always been an independent team because we draw kids from a half-dozen schools.

On the downside it means we have to raise 100% of our funds, find space, and so on. Sometimes this has been a struggle but overall we have succeeded. We have been lucky about space; we share a large workshop at a local college.

On the upside, we have MUCH more independence. We don't need a janitor to be open. We can work on snow days if people can get there. We don't need to answer to a school administration or school board. You can also have homeschoolers, kids from other schools, etc. on the team if you want. Sometimes we have even gotten some $ from some of the schools.

We know of one very successful independent team that has very little core workspace. Every year they are able to find practice space/workspace in the local community for no or little $ in buildings that happen to be vacant for a short time.

So, something to think about. We'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about this.

[MrJohnston]

One of the biggest things that keeps us going is the open support from the local tech industry.

Schools are supposed to be educating the future workforce and when powerful local employers point at robotics and tell the school, "THIS is what you need to be doing," it speaks volumes.

Find the largest tech, machining, etc. employer in your area and arrange to make a presentation to them - having your kids do most of the speaking. Then, instead of (or in addition to) asking them for money, ask if they'd write a letter in support of your club to the "powers that be" in your school. Your school board is likely elected... In some areas, superintendents are elected, too.... A letter from a company with potential political clout can do quite a bit...

We are fortunate we I live as we serve a large number of Boeing and Microsoft employees - not to mention countless other tech groups. A conversation between a couple of supervisory-level Boeing engineers and our superintendent a few years ago has spurned a major growth in FIRST in our distirct - mostly in the elementary and middle schools, so far...

[YAK'ker]

We are in much the same boat - rural community, little to no tech industry, poor admin support. I'm pulling out all stops in trying to get our admin to continue providing support for our team, but it seems almost hopeless as he is ending our woodshop and drafting program for next year.

We fought long and hard for a robotics class 2 years ago and finally got it. Now that instructor is retiring, and there's no money for FTE to take on the class. We have only a very part-time mentor (alumni parent) and me (I'm the school librarian, also an alumni parent.) I can't mentor much, because I have to keep the library open until 5 and it's at opposite ends of the building from the shop.

I've got an offer on the table from 4-H to "house" us, provided we can help run a makerspace (at the fairgrounds next door to our high school) for all sorts of robotics (FLL, FTC, MATE, VEX) that all the kids in our county can access, if they join 4-H. While I like that idea, I hesitate to leave our school because we may lose members and it's going to be a lot of work for our tiny team to manage all the makerspace duties AND survive as an FRC team. Also, we are only guaranteed that space for 2 years, as the fairgrounds will be completely renovated then.

That said, our school admin says he "doesn't want us to leave" but is not coming up with solutions to how he can help provide staff support. Our team is willing to help with funding FTE or a coach position, but admin is saying that isn't kosher.

However, I do think there are quite a few teams out there who do have a paid coach? If so, would you let me know about what your budget for that coach is?

thanks, LIz

[robomentor]

Thank you all for the feedback and ideas, they are very much appreciated, and they have helped me a lot. Some of you asked questions or had ideas that I will reply to directly.

[nixiebunny]

Even if you get booted from your school, there's hope.

Our team The Bit Buckets started as a charter school team (BASIS Tucson) in the 2012 season, then were turned down the next year by the school. We had the ear of one administrator, but the school owners wouldn't give us the time of day. (I like to say it's because there's no AP test for robotics.)

We eventually found the Xerocraft hackerspace to build in, and have recovered to the point of having just won our state's regional as alliance captain.

We created a nonprofit corporation to accept donations, and we partner with my son's high school as a conduit for state tax credit donations. We also built a very low-cost robot to reduce our fundraising needs, and we have parents pay for travel to regionals.