Gender Equality: A Work in Progress

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by planetbrilliant

Okay, I am by no means targeting you and your team specifically and i might have misunderstood your statement, but I feel like lots of people kind of automatically assume that the girls aren't into engineering. ... but instead they are pushed toward scouting, attendance, design, chairman's etc.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. I joined my high school team and started by writing because I wanted to write. I'm very glad I was offered the opportunity/pushed to learn some shop skills. I don't think I'd be where I am now (near completion of my engineering degree) if that hadn't happened.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Our of our female members there is only one who is seriously interested in engineering. The rest do jobs like marketing, music development, cleaning, and sometimes nothing. This is their choice though. I wish some of the female members did more egineering but honestly if they have no desire then why push them.

We should push everybody (not just girls), because getting everyone to try everything is important. Its hard to tell if the lack of desire is genuine or from already being pushed out. Most exposure to engineering outside of FIRST-like activities are science classes and math classes, which typically are rather dull and a recent study* showed that unintentional bias gave girls lower scores in these fields (further discouraging them from STEM). Not to mention the idea of gendered toys** teaching girls to cook and nurture, while boys are taught to build and design.

*I have not read this study in its entirety, so there may be gaping holes that I am unaware of. I would love to find out this study is flawed and teachers are not unintentionally biased against girls.

**Yes, I am aware this is a comic and not a study

Originally Posted by Shrub

Microagressions-little statements/actions that are common in speech/life and "accidentally" hurtful-are common in normal life, and there is no difference for people in FRC. (an example is assuming female-presenting members aren't on build, hardy har har.) Just being aware of microagressions can change a lot on a team's culture. Communication is also really important when confronting stuff like that.

A lot of people are really unaware of how "little things" are actually not little things. A mentor mis-attributing an accomplishment of a female to a male, getting hit on while scouting, someone saying "she's pretty good at X, and she's a girl!", an oversight of a female students abilities... are all "little" things that can be discouraging (there are not my most subtle examples).

and yes, these are all real examples

Originally Posted by 346CADmen

As a male mentor, maybe my appreciation of this thread may differ. I don't know what "girls" are up against, having not been in that place.
That said, our team had a female CEO last year, two young ladies this year provided most of our precision machining work. it also looks as if next years CAD lead will be female. I can't imagine what is holding ladies back in FIRST, except maybe themselves.

Emphasis mine.

Chris ODonnell already made some awesome points about this. I'm going to add some of my own incite:
I was lucky enough to be pushed enough and stubborn enough to get into the shop on my team. There was another girl older than me who was less pushed/stubborn and didn't get to work in the shop despite wanting to. For a period of time, I thought that everyone should be as headstrong (and lucky) as me if they wanted to work in the shop and it was their fault if they weren't.

I was wrong. I had an older brother on the team who was a large part of that push. I was more outgoing, therefor more likely to ask for jobs. I had just the right set of factors that got me where I was, and many of them were not things in my control.

Believe it or not, girls are taught to be meek and quiet. We are called "stubborn" or "bossy" when boys would be called "headstrong" and "leaders" for the same actions. We are taught to be one way and insulted when we act against it, but its still our fault if what we were taught prevents us from doing something, such as the engineering side of things.

Your team is not every team, and honestly it sounds like your team is an awesome place to be a girl. Its great to hear about a place where girls are thriving and the environment is not hostile/toxic. I'm interested in what your team is doing because you appear to be doing it right.

To respond to OP:

In my experience, it is the whole team's job to ensure that every aspect of the team is a welcoming environment for everyone. Girls should be encouraged to try welding, boys should be encouraged to try photography. Its highly unlikely that students on a team know what is involved in/have tried all the various aspects of a robotics team and so would be unqualified to know what they do and don't like. For this reason, I encourage the use on hands-on experience with pre-season workshops or during the season.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by 346CADmen

I can't imagine what is holding ladies back in FIRST, except maybe themselves.

I vehemently disagree with this statement. There are multiple studies about women in the STEM fields, women in executive roles, etc. which show that women are not the ones holding themselves back - the problem stems from widespread cultural issues. Attitudes like the one above are part of the problem, since they perpetuate the idea that if women just try harder it will solve all of the problems they face.

Edit: This is why I mentioned the importance of the attitude and approach of mentors/leadership/authority figures in my first post in this thread. The culture established and supported by an organization's leadership plays a big role in whether women (and minorities) are welcomed and can thrive, or are discouraged and pushed away.

[Rachel Lim]

There are many things that can encourage or discourage anyone to participate in any given activity, and the same is true for girls in FRC. Since everyone will be attracted (or turned away) for different reasons, it's hard to list anything specific that will help everyone. But two things that I have noted in terms of ways girls seemed to be turned away:

• The first, more obvious one is to just actively discourage them from joining, think if they join it won't be for the technical aspects, or make it a less welcoming environment for them.
• However, at least to me, another issue is programs aimed at girls (or any program trying to get more girls) simplify themselves to the point where it seems to say that girls couldn't do it otherwise.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I've never had any issues with being a girl in any STEM classes with mostly boys. I haven't felt judged or discouraged because of it, and sometimes almost feel like the boys in those classes are less judging then the girls are. My main issue is the second one, which I've experienced multiple times with STEM activities aimed at girls (outside of robotics) when I did them many years ago.


In an ideal world, everyone would be shown every subject and could pick their favorite without pressure from anyone to do one over another. That might result in a 50/50 split, or it may not. Since that is a very distant goal, my recommendations to any team trying to make members of any gender (or race, economic background, education, etc.) feel welcome are:

• Eliminate any obvious discrimination especially from the mentors
• Make the environment as open as possible
• Have workshops to teach the basic skills some members may never have learned
• Don't make prior assumptions about what someone wants to do
• Don't judge them based on what they do end up doing (note this goes both ways)
• Don't treat people differently simply based on gender or anything else (I know some girls do need more encouragement, but so do some boys. I personally treating everyone similarly, and guiding those who need additional encouragement to be able to prove to themselves they can succeed like other members is ideal. Telling someone they're always right just because they're a girl isn't much better than telling them they're always wrong just because they're a girl. Both ways say that girls are inherently less capable, although the first less directly.)

In summary: make your team open, encourage those that need it, but don't do it in a way that implies they're incapable of equally good work as other members.

[Gdeaver]

I could go on for pages and pages on this subject but will only state 2 things.

"Respect" Male, female, mentor, student Must respect each other. Respect is something that must be the foundation of a team. It is not something that just happens, it takes work.

At this age, 9th to 12th, the girls must learn how to play with the boys and more importantly the boys must learn how to play with the girls. This is hard and mentor involvement and interaction can really help them deal with this.

The worst mistake I made in mentoring was in 2003 when I put the 5 girls on the team into a group on a design build project. It was a disaster. I still feel bad for them. I created the exclusion. Now I strive to break up the natural tendency to for clicks of mono-sex. I strive to keep things mix up and not to let the clicks form. It's hard but once the barriers are broken down it's amazing to watch them perform and grow as a team.

A little respect and practice playing together.

I don't care what sex race or culture some one is as long as they want to play robots with me.

[alisonap]

I have been a part of the FIRST Robotics community since I was in fourth grade and this year I will be participating in 5th year of FRC as a junior in high school. Robotics has proven to be a place for me to find comfort and fun regardless of my gender, but it isn't always easy.

For me, the biggest support to stay with the team and engineering has been the older female students taking me under their wing and pushing me to do my best. Now that I have been a part of this community for a couple of years, I'm trying to do that for future female engineers.

Each girl (and boy) should have a mentor or returning student to turn to. I encourage everyone to find someone to become a mentor for and listen to all of their opinions.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by planetbrilliant

Okay, I am by no means targeting you and your team specifically and i might have misunderstood your statement, but I feel like lots of people kind of automatically assume that the girls aren't into engineering. Like a girl could be into engineering but when they get assigned into sub-groups they get pushed toward design, finance etc, and if they try to work on the robot they feel excluded or unwanted. This might not be purposeful on behalf of the manufacturing team, but intentional or not it is a problem. All four of the girls are interested in working on the robot, but instead they are pushed toward scouting, attendance, design, chairman's etc.

In the beginning of the year we do demonstrations of what we do. From there we have them decide (boys and girls) what team they want to be on. Simple as that. I wish there were more girls on our team into engineering but most of our female members would rather write an essay then drill a hole. There are the exceptions like our engineering vp who is a girl and we have a freshman member who doesn't come much but when she does she goes around the robot and cleans everything up (she's a perfectionist).

[rookierunner]

There are many great points listed here. I have a slightly different perspective... as a male mentor on a very small (~12) all girls frc team I see things similar and differently. In the absence of boys we still have some 'timid' girls in terms of the shop equipment, but they are all trained and strongly encouraged to use it. In terms of design concepts, using cad, math etc, they are all very willing to share ideas, opinions and use the engineering tools. The biggest hurdle we are still trying to overcome is the interactions at competition. We have actually been told by a judge that highlighting 'all girls' is hurting our chances for an award. Attempts to talk strategy with alliance members often are a no win situation: be told to do something you are not capable of doing and 1) fail trying which hurts the alliance or 2) speak up to explain your position and be shunned for being obstinate or moody or not a team player or just plain a b#&+@.
There are certainly exceptions, but for the most part larger cultural changes are required for improvements. Posts like this can be the beginning of a grass roots movement that reaches lots of our young STEM up and comers.
Best of luck in the last few weeks of competition.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

In the beginning of the year we do demonstrations of what we do. From there we have them decide (boys and girls) what team they want to be on. Simple as that. I wish there were more girls on our team into engineering but most of our female members would rather write an essay then drill a hole. There are the exceptions like our engineering vp who is a girl and we have a freshman member who doesn't come much but when she does she goes around the robot and cleans everything up (she's a perfectionist).

There are a lot of forces outside of your team pushing both boys and girls in one direction or another. I haven't mentored a team before, but if I ever did, I would try to do a little more than just sitting back and letting people "choose" - because there are a lot of things going into that "choice" that aren't necessarily positive.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

In the beginning of the year we do demonstrations of what we do. From there we have them decide (boys and girls) what team they want to be on. Simple as that. I wish there were more girls on our team into engineering but most of our female members would rather write an essay then drill a hole. There are the exceptions like our engineering vp who is a girl and we have a freshman member who doesn't come much but when she does she goes around the robot and cleans everything up (she's a perfectionist).

So you have a freshman girl who prefers to clean than participate in robot build?

Have you ever thought that maybe that's what she is comfortable doing. Perhaps her tendency to be a perfectionist is what is keeping her back from asking to help with the robot. She may be afraid to mess it up.

When I first started on my team as a student, I had the opportunity to drive the robot. That act promptly broke something on it. I immediately felt awful, thinking I had done something wrong. What helped to shape the rest of my FRC career was one mentor telling me, non sarcastically, "Nice job. Better to break something here than on the field at competition. Now we know what to fix..." and then inviting me over to see what we could do about it.

I, too, was a student who liked a clean shop and would clean around the robot. It was my way of seeing, from a safe distance, what others were doing, learning about tools, and becoming comfortable in the shop.

Now I still prefer to write (heck, I'm an English teacher), but I'm just as capable and comfortable with tools as many of my male counterpart mentors, and I am more capable at strategy than most of them. Thanks 33, for pushing me outside the box of "Girls like writing and cleanliness."

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

So you have a freshman girl who prefers to clean than participate in robot build?

Have you ever thought that maybe that's what she is comfortable doing. Perhaps her tendency to be a perfectionist is what is keeping her back from asking to help with the robot. She may be afraid to mess it up.

When I first started on my team as a student, I had the opportunity to drive the robot. That act promptly broke something on it. I immediately felt awful, thinking I had done something wrong. What helped to shape the rest of my FRC career was one mentor telling me, non sarcastically, "Nice job. Better to break something here than on the field at competition. Now we know what to fix..." and then inviting me over to see what we could do about it.

I, too, was a student who liked a clean shop and would clean around the robot. It was my way of seeing, from a safe distance, what others were doing, learning about tools, and becoming comfortable in the shop.

Now I still prefer to write (heck, I'm an English teacher), but I'm just as capable and comfortable with tools as many of my male counterpart mentors, and I am more capable at strategy than most of them. Thanks 33, for pushing me outside the box of "Girls like writing and cleanliness."

She has helped with the robot but she says cleaning and organizing is relaxing to her. Do you have any tips to see if she actually wants to clean or is just in her shell.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

She has helped with the robot but she says cleaning and organizing is relaxing to her. Do you have any tips to see if she actually wants to clean or is just in her shell.

It probably is relaxing to her. That's great. I also enjoy a clean shop.

Every team meeting, ask her to help with a specific robot-related activity. Keeping it specific, while asking her questions about what she thinks regarding design and strategy questions will encourage her to push herself.

Also, encourage her teammates to clean up after themselves.

[planetbrilliant]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

She has helped with the robot but she says cleaning and organizing is relaxing to her. Do you have any tips to see if she actually wants to clean or is just in her shell.

Just ask her to help, invite her to help you do something. There's a really shy kid on my team who's not good at asserting himself (I'm the same way, to an extent) and just inviting them to help you test this thing or teaching them how to do another thing can go a long way.

[Ian Curtis]

At the Shorewood district event in Washington there was a young lady from The IRS (1318) that gave a brief pitch about how teams should strive for gender equality in student leadership and on drive teams. Futhermore, if your team didn't have women in those roles, and you wanted one, you should do so and be an example for those coming after you. I'm not sure if the video was archived, but it was awesome!

More regions should host the equivalent of Girls Gen... That is the most inspirational FIRST event I've ever attended, and you can really see the confidence boost at work.

[smurfgirl]

I'm too late to edit my previous post, but I just happened upon a relevant article on the biases pushing women out of STEM. It also discusses some differences in the experiences of women of different races. It's worth a read. Being aware of the existing biases means you can fight back against them and help to change the culture.

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by safiq10

We did this by starting an all girls engineering club and 2 all girls FTC teams. This allowed the girls to build basic skills without the powerhouse students and then they have to confidence to join in with the boy on our team for winter projects in preparation for FRC.

Its safe to assume what you're trying to say here is that women are not and cannot be power house students? Cause that's exactly what you just said regardless of how you meant it.

Personally I think this is the most disrespectful thing you can ever say. I hope that you personally apologize to every leader and powerhouse female that has read this post and has ever been involved in your program.