Go to Post Real coaches dont use "strategy assistants" during matches. - Rick [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Pneumatics
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:36
Team3844's Avatar
Team3844 Team3844 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Arthur Canada
FRC #3844 (Kentucky Wildbots)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Corbin, Ky
Posts: 70
Team3844 has a spectacular aura aboutTeam3844 has a spectacular aura about
compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Last year our compressor ran nonstop during matches but we had no problems with blown hoses.
We just started having this problem after weeks of problem free pnematics on our practice bot.
Does anyone have an idea how to dissipate the heat?
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:38
Ben Wolsieffer Ben Wolsieffer is offline
Dartmouth 2020
AKA: lopsided98
FRC #2084 (Robots by the C)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Manchester, MA (Hanover, NH)
Posts: 520
Ben Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud ofBen Wolsieffer has much to be proud of
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

What do you mean by blown hoses? Did the hose physically fail, or did it disconnect from the compressor?
__________________



2016 North Shore District - Semifinalists and Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Northeastern University District - Semifinalists and Creativity Award
2014 Granite State District - Semifinalists and Innovation in Control Award
2012 Boston Regional - Finalists
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:43
Knufire Knufire is offline
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 736
Knufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond reputeKnufire has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

I've seen this problem several times. Easiest fix is simply putting a fan on the compressor. The extra airflow does wonders.
__________________
Team 469: 2010 - 2013
Team 5188: 2014 - 2016
NAR (VEX U): 2014 - Present
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:46
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,025
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team3844 View Post
Last year our compressor ran nonstop during matches but we had no problems with blown hoses.
We just started having this problem after weeks of problem free pnematics on our practice bot.
Does anyone have an idea how to dissipate the heat?
Do you have the plastic hose connected directly to the fitting on the compressor?


  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:50
PAR_WIG1350's Avatar
PAR_WIG1350 PAR_WIG1350 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alan Wells
FRC #1350 (Rambots)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,188
PAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Adding additional metal fittings between the compressor and the plastic tubing has been known to help cool the air as it exits the compressor.
__________________
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:56
Dunngeon Dunngeon is offline
Pumped
AKA: Ryan
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
Posts: 299
Dunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond reputeDunngeon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team3844 View Post
Last year our compressor ran nonstop during matches but we had no problems with blown hoses.
We just started having this problem after weeks of problem free pnematics on our practice bot.
Does anyone have an idea how to dissipate the heat?
Are you running the VIAIR 90 C? We too had this issue, for the practice bot we switched the compressor to a Thomas 215 which is rated for 100% duty. We retained the 90C for the competition bot because it only needs to run in short bursts.
__________________
(2015-?): 973
(2012-2015): 955
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:57
Chris_Ely's Avatar
Chris_Ely Chris_Ely is offline
Registered User
AKA: luckof13
FRC #3414 (HackBots)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Farmington, Michigan
Posts: 365
Chris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond reputeChris_Ely has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Add more metal fittings between the compressor and the plastic tubing. You can also place one of the large fans from the kit of parts to blow on the compressor to help cool it.
__________________
2013: Waterford Finalist, Livonia Winner, MSC Quarterfinalist, Curie Division
2012: Waterford, Northville, Livonia
2011: Waterford Finalist, Livonia
2010: Ann Arbor Rookie Inspiration Award, Troy

Mechanical Engineering Student,
Michigan Technological University
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 19:59
tickspe15's Avatar
tickspe15 tickspe15 is offline
Purdue University
AKA: Spencer Tickman
FRC #1747 (Harrison Boiler Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 250
tickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant futuretickspe15 has a brilliant future
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

We use a different type of tube coming off the compressor that is rated for higher temperature operation. I believe the tube we use is rated for 200+ degrees Fahrenheit compared to the KOP tubing which is rated for 120ish degrees. We have also experimented with a metal sheathed tube coming off the compressor but higher rated tube seems to work just as well and be much lighter.

Last year in competition we ran our compressor at %100 duty and burnt out 2 compressors over the course of our 100 match season and replaced the tube from the compressor at every event. This year after three events the tubing we use with the higher temperature rating has no visible deformation anywhere on the tube(even in the fitting).
__________________
Team 1318: 2011-2015
Team 1747: 2015-Present
NAR (VEX U): 2015-Present
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 20:17
GeeTwo's Avatar
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Technical Director
AKA: Gus Michel II
FRC #3946 (Tiger Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 3,564
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Yes, we had this problem for Ultimate Ascent (our climber was primarily pneumatically powered). We had several hoses aneurism and rupture at the compressor output. By the time we got to the hose, the outrushing air had cooled the hose, so it took us several times (and changing hose batches) before we figured out that the heat was softening the tubing.

As hinted above, the key is dissipating that heat before reaching the first rubber tubing. In our case, we simply moved the pressure switch, stored pressure gauge, and vent plug onto an all-brass "christmas tree" leading away from the compressor, and put the first fitting to rubber tubing at the far end of all this brass. If this hadn't been enough, we probably would have heat-sinked this mass of metal to radiator fins or the robot chassis, and only then gone to a more active (fan) cooling mechanism.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 21:12
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Basic Chemistry / Gas Laws

PV = nRT

It isn't the compressor. compressing air makes it hot, so you have a lot of hot air coming out. The Thomas had a large surface area on the compressor so it dissapated some heat.

put a metal heat exchange on the output of the compressor - put a length of metal tubing on the output of the compressor, then change over to plastic.

It would be nice if someone made an off the shelf radiator with about a foot length of copper tube with fins, with 1/8 NPT fittings.
__________________
Ed Barker
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 21:31
PAR_WIG1350's Avatar
PAR_WIG1350 PAR_WIG1350 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alan Wells
FRC #1350 (Rambots)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,188
PAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
Basic Chemistry / Gas Laws

PV = nRT

It isn't the compressor. compressing air makes it hot, so you have a lot of hot air coming out. The Thomas had a large surface area on the compressor so it dissapated some heat.

put a metal heat exchange on the output of the compressor - put a length of metal tubing on the output of the compressor, then change over to plastic.

It would be nice if someone made an off the shelf radiator with about a foot length of copper tube with fins, with 1/8 NPT fittings.
That sounds like overkill. Given that most teams can handle the issue with parts that are already in the system; a 3" fitting with fins should be more than enough to dissipate heat to acceptable levels for the tubing we are using.
__________________
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 22:00
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Not overkill for us. We keep most of our robots for years serving as showbots. Sometimes they run 8 or 9 hours a day, with small breaks.

We have two arial assist bots and they use a lot of compressed air, and we blow tubes all the time from heat fatigue. I'd pay money for a good heat exchanger.

Most teams don't need that much cooling but there are enough around that could probably use it.

if anyone see one, please post it.
__________________
Ed Barker
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 22:37
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is offline
Missouri S&T Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,369
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

My team, in 2013, found the same problem with the Viair compressor (Yes, I know the compressor in the picture is the Thompson. Midseason, after burning out a compressor, that was what we had left.) , which we solved by using copper tubing off of the compressor. Might have been excessive overkill, but it solved the problem and worked throughout the season.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CopperCompressor.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	488.5 KB
ID:	18722  
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / EmCee (2014 - Present) | FRC EmCee (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016)
Academic Student (Forever)
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-03-2015, 23:08
PAR_WIG1350's Avatar
PAR_WIG1350 PAR_WIG1350 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alan Wells
FRC #1350 (Rambots)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,188
PAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
Not overkill for us. We keep most of our robots for years serving as showbots. Sometimes they run 8 or 9 hours a day, with small breaks.

We have two arial assist bots and they use a lot of compressed air, and we blow tubes all the time from heat fatigue. I'd pay money for a good heat exchanger.

Most teams don't need that much cooling but there are enough around that could probably use it.

if anyone see one, please post it.
I forgot to account for that scenario .

They do make them, but they are rather heavy duty for what we are doing, and are not an allowed part under R66, not that that matters for demonstration purposes.
__________________
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-03-2015, 00:13
snoman's Avatar
snoman snoman is offline
Registered User
FRC #3275 (Accelerators 3134 & Regulators 3275)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 362
snoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to beholdsnoman is a splendid one to behold
Re: compressor is heating up to the point it blows hose

+1 put a fan on it. also the Tomas seems to be a better compressor. contrary to listed stats it put out more air in a given amount of time for us. but it is bigger.
__________________
Coach of the Cass Lake Bena Regulators 3275 (Boys)and mentor Accelerators 3134(Girls)
https://www.facebook.com/accerleratorsandregulators/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQU...Cr8I4wezAbMefA
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi