Go to Post Did our Jaguar swallow a chipmunk, or is something else going on? - Tom Line [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 09:01
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
Registered User
FRC #0624
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 892
Abhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad View Post
I would go further to say its in part a function of the lack of interdependency, both offense & defense. Our highest score came with only 2 robots on the field (although we would have gotten a higher score if our robot had grabbed a 2nd center can in one of the Sacramento finals with 3 bots on the field.)

But that's further enhanced by the technical challenge of capping stacks which is akin to climbing beyond the first level of the pyramid in 2013. Not many teams could do that back then either.
Yup, we're back to a game where a single team can score a massive amount of points by itself, as opposed to something like 2014, where even without defense teams relied on each other to get those assists if they really wanted to score high, and it was sort of a limiting factor.
__________________
2012 - 2015 : 624 CRyptonite
Team Website
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 11:04
nuclearnerd's Avatar
nuclearnerd nuclearnerd is offline
Speaking for myself, not my team
AKA: Brendan Simons
FRC #5406 (Celt-X)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 458
nuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant futurenuclearnerd has a brilliant future
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Here are the two histograms again, but this time I've clipped the top of the scale so we can focus on the "tails" (the 50 or so teams at the top and bottom of the distribution). I also screwed up the last plot and didn't show 2056 with an OPR at ~6 SD above the mean. 2056 and 1114 look lonely out there

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16...ew?usp=sharing
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 17:16
Citrus Dad's Avatar
Citrus Dad Citrus Dad is offline
Business and Scouting Mentor
AKA: Richard McCann
FRC #1678 (Citrus Circuits)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Davis
Posts: 991
Citrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd View Post
Here are the two histograms again, but this time I've clipped the top of the scale so we can focus on the "tails" (the 50 or so teams at the top and bottom of the distribution). I also screwed up the last plot and didn't show 2056 with an OPR at ~6 SD above the mean. 2056 and 1114 look lonely out there

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16...ew?usp=sharing
What's absurd is that there are 60 teams BELOW the bottom of last year's distribution.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 22:09
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is offline
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,059
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad View Post
What's absurd is that there are 60 teams BELOW the bottom of last year's distribution.
Not really, it is easier to accidentally hurt your own alliance this year than it was last year.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 22:15
Woolly's Avatar
Woolly Woolly is offline
Programming Mentor
AKA: Dillon Woollums
FRC #1806 (S.W.A.T.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 512
Woolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond reputeWoolly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Not really, it is easier to accidentally hurt your own alliance this year than it was last year.
G40 would like a word with you.
__________________


Team 1806 Student: 2012-2013 | Mentor: 2013-Present
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 23:27
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is offline
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,059
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly View Post
G40 would like a word with you.
You're absolutely right, I had forgotten about penalties. I wonder how these graphs would compare if the OPRs from last year incorporated penalties.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2015, 16:09
Citrus Dad's Avatar
Citrus Dad Citrus Dad is offline
Business and Scouting Mentor
AKA: Richard McCann
FRC #1678 (Citrus Circuits)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Davis
Posts: 991
Citrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
You're absolutely right, I had forgotten about penalties. I wonder how these graphs would compare if the OPRs from last year incorporated penalties.
Pretty sure last year's OPR included penalties, as with all previous years. The OPR calculation is simply a regression analysis on the total final score for each match with a dummy variable for each team.

So I go back to my original comment that the low end spread is quite interesting. I think it might be reflective of how difficult it is for a newer or less experienced team to contribute to the game, but I didn't think they could detract so much.

BTW, there are special statistical properties to include when running regressions with a continuous dependent variable (score) and 0-1 dummy variables (i.e., whether a team is present on the alliance). I haven't looked at that issue for quite a while so I don't remember much beyond that but it is a consideration in the OPR estimation.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2015, 16:30
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is offline
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,059
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad View Post
Pretty sure last year's OPR included penalties, as with all previous years. The OPR calculation is simply a regression analysis on the total final score for each match with a dummy variable for each team.

So I go back to my original comment that the low end spread is quite interesting. I think it might be reflective of how difficult it is for a newer or less experienced team to contribute to the game, but I didn't think they could detract so much.

BTW, there are special statistical properties to include when running regressions with a continuous dependent variable (score) and 0-1 dummy variables (i.e., whether a team is present on the alliance). I haven't looked at that issue for quite a while so I don't remember much beyond that but it is a consideration in the OPR estimation.
I should have been more clear. What I meant to convey was that penalties last year had no direct impact on the offending team's score. Thus, OPR would have no way to tell that a team was hurting their alliance because of penalties. Since penalties this year are subtractive, they are reflected in the OPR calculations.

What I am curious about is an alternate OPR calculation for last year which would use the following formula in the match score matrix instead of the nominal score:
adjusted score = (nominal score) - (penalty points incurred by opposing alliance) + (penalty points incurred by this alliance)

Actually, I do remember uOPR (unpenalized OPR) being calculated last year. Was this the method of obtaining that? Or did it just subtract out all penalty points incurred without adding any back in?
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2015, 18:10
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,097
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
What I am curious about is an alternate OPR calculation for last year which would use the following formula in the match score matrix instead of the nominal score:
adjusted score = (nominal score) - (penalty points incurred by opposing alliance) + (penalty points incurred by this alliance)

Actually, I do remember uOPR (unpenalized OPR) being calculated last year. Was this the method of obtaining that? Or did it just subtract out all penalty points incurred without adding any back in?
Is this at all helpful?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/download/4037

Column headings are as follows:
Code:


L2s	Final Score OPR
L2f	Foul OPR
L2h	Hybrid OPR
L2t	TeleOp OPR
L2os	Opponent's Final Score OPR
L2of	Opponent's Foul OPR
L2oh	Opponent's Hybrid OPR
L2ot	Opponent's TeleOp OPR
As	Average Final Score
Af	Average Foul
Ah	Average Hybrid
At	Average TeleOp
Aos	Opponents Average Final Score
Aof	Opponents Average Foul
Aoh	Opponents Average Hybrid
Aot	Opponents Average TeleOp
uOPR	unpenalized OPR = L2s - L2f
uDPR	unpenalized DPR = L2os - L2of
uCCWM	unpenalized CCWM = uOPR - uDPR
EPA	uOPR - (As - Af)
M	Matches Played
N.B. : The usual Twitter data caveats apply

Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2015, 18:49
Conor Ryan Conor Ryan is offline
I'm parking robot yacht club.
FRC #4571 (Robot Yacht Club)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Midtown, NYC
Posts: 1,896
Conor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond reputeConor Ryan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

There are more teams this year than ever before. The 1% is getting bigger and more elite ever year.

More than anything I think this statistic is showing the complete absence of defense from this years game.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-04-2015, 16:48
Citrus Dad's Avatar
Citrus Dad Citrus Dad is offline
Business and Scouting Mentor
AKA: Richard McCann
FRC #1678 (Citrus Circuits)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Davis
Posts: 991
Citrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond reputeCitrus Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor Ryan View Post
There are more teams this year than ever before. The 1% is getting bigger and more elite ever year.
Actually 2014 was one of the most flat years in distribution so there's not an obvious trend. The SD calculation normalizes for the size of the pool of teams--it should be the same regardless of whether there are 100 or 10,000 teams. The difference in the distribution is really driven by the nature of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor Ryan View Post
More than anything I think this statistic is showing the complete absence of defense from this years game.
See my points above: It's not only lack of defense but the particular difficulty of gaining the highest point activities. There's been posts on that issue in other threads.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2015, 22:29
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is offline
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,059
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
Is this at all helpful?
Thank you, that is indeed very helpful. I will play around more with this after my team competes this weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-03-2015, 23:54
Pretzel Pretzel is offline
Ex-Driver
AKA: Tyler
FRC #1619 (Up-A-Creek Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 161
Pretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to beholdPretzel is a splendid one to behold
Re: pic: Top 10% OPRs compared via standard deviation distribution - 2008-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly View Post
G40 would like a word with you.
G40 didn't reduce your OPR though. It gave points to your opponents instead of taking away your own hard-earned points. You also were unable to de-score yourself by knocking over stacks, since it was pretty hard to get the ball to go backwards back through the goal after your scored.
__________________
It's not done until it's overdone!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:30.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi