Yellow Tote Placement Procedure

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

At all three events I've attended this year (Mexico City, VCU, Greater DC), the guidance was that team members could move items but field reset must be the last person to touch/adjust/confirm placement of the totes and recycling containers.

Wetzel

This is consistent with our experience at the 3 district events we have attended (Waterbury, UMASS Dartmouth, and Hartford) as well. It seems to me that it is the most reasonable and expedient implementation of the rules.

[donnie99]

I was part of the field reset crew at the NE FIRST Northeastern this past weekend. We would work with teams to place the totes and barrels on the field at the start of the match. I personally don't think field crews are really being rushed this year, as teams are putting their robots together on the field, as we were almost always done before any robots were connected to the field.

The only thing for the teams at our event was to have a field reset volunteer or referee confirm the spot of the tote, and our guideline to confirm was that it was okay if it was in a spot that we would have placed it ourselves if no robot had been there.

We only had one small question about the placement early in the event, but was quickly and easily resolved regarding placement, and everything went smoothly the rest of the time.

[April_robo]

Having done field reset for 2 events in michigan we haven't had a problem with this. I am usually one of the last people off the field because I make sure the totes are aligned and in the box. If a team needs to move a tote or RC to place their robot the field staff usually tries to move it for them and we stand their and watch them putting things back or we put them back ourselves.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

This is consistent with our experience at the 3 district events we have attended (Waterbury, UMASS Dartmouth, and Hartford) as well. It seems to me that it is the most reasonable and expedient implementation of the rules.

That was not our experience at Hartford. When I asked the referee if he or I could adjust the position of an obviously misaligned tote for our autonomous mode, he refused.

If we're following the word for word rules for the manual, there's nothing that says the field reset crew can't place the tote upside down on top of the recycling can either.

Personally, I don't think it's really right for the field reset crew to have the power to decide the success or failure of autonomous, which is true under the current rules.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Jared

That was not our experience at Hartford. When I asked the referee if he or I could adjust the position of an obviously misaligned tote for our autonomous mode, he refused.

If we're following the word for word rules for the manual, there's nothing that says the field reset crew can't place the tote upside down on top of the recycling can either.

Personally, I don't think it's really right for the field reset crew to have the power to decide the success or failure of autonomous, which is true under the current rules.

Ah I see the overzealous volunteer syndrome is back!

[bkahl]

Sticking to the yellow tote theme at Hartford, I have yet to find the rule that states that a team may only remove the yellow tote directly in front of their driver's station, and not any others. This was STRICTLY enforced Saturday, but not so much on Sunday. This was more an inconvenience in the time we were supposed to be getting out of transport config than anything, but still an issue.

From 2.3.1 in the Game Manual:

Teams may elect to move some or all of the Yellow TOTES into the ALLIANCE STATION prior to the start of the MATCH per Section 3.1.4:
MATCH Logistics.

The inconsistencies at Hartford are worrisome. I hope this is different for NEDCMP and Worlds.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Sticking to the yellow tote theme at Hartford, I have yet to find the rule that states that a team may only remove the yellow tote directly in front of their driver's station, and not any others. This was STRICTLY enforced Saturday, but not so much on Sunday. This was more an inconvenience in the time we were supposed to be getting out of transport config than anything, but still an issue.

From 2.3.1 in the Game Manual:

3.1.4 is very clear that it's the tote in front of their drivers' station.

That being said, it's not uncommon for an alliance to agree to remove X totes and inform the field staff of such. However, if there's disagreement in the alliance, the team whose station it is takes precedence (to the field staff).

[DinerKid]

At both Northeastern and Reading the field reset crew was happy to help us with positioning totes and recycling containers perfectly on the field (example: if it was half an inch from perfect they would adjust it half an inch, despite that fact that half an inch off is within the tolerance).

Additionally, one of our autonomous modes requires our robot to start with a recycling container in our gripper, in order to do this the RC needs to be pressed through passive fingers in order to be in range of the gripper (in teleop we accomplish this by driving the RC against a wall) however during setup of a match, we have one of our drivers sit on the RC to hold it in place, as the field crew placed it, while another driver pushes the robot, flexing the fingers around the RC as it is pushed. This allows us to position properly without ever moving the RC. Perhaps this method could work for some of the other teams out there struggling with initial positioning.

~DK

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by DinerKid

we have one of our drivers sit on the RC to hold it in place

I would have called that a G3 violation - "DRIVE TEAMS may not climb over or step on game elements"

Originally Posted by jared

That was not our experience at Hartford. When I asked the referee if he or I could adjust the position of an obviously misaligned tote for our autonomous mode, he refused.

I had a discussion with a Head Ref about centering RC's on the Step. My thought was that, as long as it is on the step, it should be played where is placed (bots have to be designed for the tolerance of the step width). He felt a reasonable amount of centering is a reasonable accommodation (avoid giving one side an advantage).

Since teams are allowed to move RC/Totes when placing their robot, I didn't care how much they moved them as long as they ended up back in the proper position (and within the 60 second robot placement limit). There were a few instances where the Tote ended up on a line, and we told the team they had to move the robot so the Tote was off the line.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by EricH

3.1.4 is very clear that it's the tote in front of their drivers' station.

That being said, it's not uncommon for an alliance to agree to remove X totes and inform the field staff of such. However, if there's disagreement in the alliance, the team whose station it is takes precedence (to the field staff).

Oh wow, I completely passed over that snip-it in my quick read in the pits. Thanks!

[DinerKid]

Originally Posted by rich2202

I would have called that a G3 violation - "DRIVE TEAMS may not climb over or step on game elements"

By "sit" I mean "place some amount of her weight on it, in order to hold it in place"

G1-6 are listed under safety, therefore I feel as though it is a given that their intent is to keep the drive team safe. Given that she is performing this maneuver while keeping her feet on the floor and is always stable even if the RC were to collapse or miraculously disappear (therefor she is safe) I don't think this would constitute a G3 inflraction.

~DK

[MarcD79]

Well I can see there are different opinions as how/where the totes are placed. I was Field Super in Waterbury & Pioneer Valley & Field Reset in Hartford. I don't know where Techno tics were but they obviously didn't approach me. All 3 events I always placed and or verified that the tote was next to or touching the can & centered in the box at ALL 3 EVENTS! I made a lot of teams happy by verifying & with a smile to them so they knew they were within regulations. The pictures I saw earlier in the post in no way reflect any event I volunteered at. Also the Refs left it up to me to make sure they were placed correctly. I did occasionally correct the tote after a team had placed their robot so they would be valid. I never had anyone approach me questioning where I placed them. Now maybe when I had that human problem of a mother nature break they asked Scott the Ref. That may have been the time. I was told by the FIRST FTA to place the Can & tote centered in the box, not hanging over the edge. I think we did a great job keeping the field in tip top shape for all those great teams.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by MarcD79

Well I can see there are different opinions as how/where the totes are placed. I was Field Super in Waterbury & Pioneer Valley & Field Reset in Hartford. I don't know where Techno tics were but they obviously didn't approach me. All 3 events I always placed and or verified that the tote was next to or touching the can & centered in the box at ALL 3 EVENTS! I made a lot of teams happy by verifying & with a smile to them so they knew they were within regulations. The pictures I saw earlier in the post in no way reflect any event I volunteered at. Also the Refs left it up to me to make sure they were placed correctly. I did occasionally correct the tote after a team had placed their robot so they would be valid. I never had anyone approach me questioning where I placed them. Now maybe when I had that human problem of a mother nature break they asked Scott the Ref. That may have been the time. I was told by the FIRST FTA to place the Can & tote centered in the box, not hanging over the edge. I think we did a great job keeping the field in tip top shape for all those great teams.

Thanks for clarifying - If we ever have this sort of problem again, I guess we'll just try approaching somebody else on the field. I think we'll be able to find a reasonable person like you to correct any sort of accidental misalignment.

At Waterbury and Saturday at Hartford, we had no problem with tote alignment. The field crew (maybe you?) took the time to make sure that the totes were lined up nicely and checked with our other driver to make sure everything was okay before leaving the field. If there was ever a concern with alignment of the tote in our robot, or the other totes on the field, the field crew was happy to explain and help out.

On Sunday, I probably just asked the wrong person.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Jared

That was not our experience at Hartford. When I asked the referee if he or I could adjust the position of an obviously misaligned tote for our autonomous mode, he refused.

If we're following the word for word rules for the manual, there's nothing that says the field reset crew can't place the tote upside down on top of the recycling can either.

Personally, I don't think it's really right for the field reset crew to have the power to decide the success or failure of autonomous, which is true under the current rules.

I must say that I was not on the field so maybe we were just lucky and didn't have to ask for a tote to be straightened. Or maybe we just didn't have to ask the "wrong" field reset person.

Originally Posted by bkahl

Sticking to the yellow tote theme at Hartford, I have yet to find the rule that states that a team may only remove the yellow tote directly in front of their driver's station, and not any others. This was STRICTLY enforced Saturday, but not so much on Sunday. This was more an inconvenience in the time we were supposed to be getting out of transport config than anything, but still an issue.

The inconsistencies at Hartford are worrisome. I hope this is different for NEDCMP and Worlds.

I agree. The inconsistencies being reported here are very disconcerting. I am truly sad that others received a negative response.

[Marc S.]

As the Field Supervisor for the Ventura Regional (CAVE) I made sure that the placement was as follows:

Step 1: Place the Recycling container in the box with the bottom of the container covering tape equally on 3 sides, handles pointing towards the driver stations.

Step 2: Place the yellow totes in the box centered width wise, by eye, and touching the Recycling container.

I tried teaching most field reseters to do this so the field was as consistent as possible from match to match. Most of the time though I had to do a walk around to make sure they were lined up properly. In cases where teams were touching the Containers/Totes before the match we aligned them first, let the teams place their robots, and then realigned the elements or touched them to verify that they were placed correctly.