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Unread 01-04-2015, 22:44
cglrcng cglrcng is offline
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Re: Yellow Tote Placement Procedure

The short answer to your original OP question is...The one pic missing in the examples are the hundreds of times it was perfectly and legally aligned. And you stated all were legal, and not one affected your robot (No Field or alignment of game pcs. is perfect, you build in for the differences)...They also allow you Teams personell to adjust there, we just verify in or out....Then, they ask you to adjust it again before the match begins if it is out of those taped carpet areas...Arm yourself w/ the printed rules, then take that up w/ YOUR GAME REFEREES Before the match begins, or in the question box after it ends.
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Reposted from OP's posting:

To show just how inaccurate "in the staging zone" is, I came up with a worst case in SolidWorks of the field layout. The far right angled tote is placed the way the tote farthest from our robot was place, and was considered to be okay.

All the totes are fully inside the staging zones in this picture.

(My answer: Yes they all are legally inside of the box, and I personally would have asked you, if that is where you wanted it, and straightened it each time, if not....Each, and every time I noticed it).

I was wondering if this is common practice, and if so, how often the field crew will place the totes like this. Do you think this is something we need to worry about, or was it just a one time incident?
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The Common Practice is to get it straight and centered inside of the correct colored taped box end on the carpet at both ends of the field, with RC's centered on the tote centerline and touching each, handles pointed the right directions. But like actual common sense..."It just isn't so common afterall."

What can go wrong, certainly can and will. Not a pun. (You have last adjustment control as long as it is inside of the tape lines, and those Ref's. assure that by their mere presence on the field of play). They are all about fairness too...Simply Put...Use them (the Refs), like the tools they really are.
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I personally asked Ref's. a few times myself, when I saw numerous team game strategies I questioned in my mind like..."Is that REALLY POSSIBLY LEGAL???" (When I saw things happen that was "intentional team or player thinking way outside of the box, or even the specific Arena or Field of Play!")

And ALL of it, led to very surprising answers & some long discussions on and off the field of play, but not any game delaying discussions ever, as some of the related answers, even surprised me too, as I previously read and re-read the rules constantly parsing the game w/ strategy questions & possibillities, reading & even suggesting many Q&A's be asked before play even began this season & since, and big discussion thread participation here on CD often over the last 2.5 + Months...(Which is why I'm not a Ref)....Ever. (I'm Simply not qualified...PERIOD is what I say & list). RULES ARE BLACK PRINTING on a WHITE background, there is no gray to me...Unless of course, it is Gray Totes in this game.

(An Example of an instant surprise: YELLOW TOTES PUSHED WAAAY OFF onto GRAY CONCRETE INTENTIONALLY OUTSIDE OF THE POSTED and rules described and carpeted ARENA during the game/matches, IT JUST DID NOT ACTUALLY EVEN COMPUTE to this foolishly logic based ADULT Human,....But, it was shown & accepted to be legal by the published rules). That student out thought me certainly. As I slinked away, I thought...He personally intentionally placed the game pcs. outside of the Arena...??? How can it possibly be ruled LEGAL by the REFS? (Not questioning the REFS here, I was questioning THE GAME...And the published RULESET I was and still am).

Well, because there is simply no rule against doing so DURING THE GAME, and all our specific job entails, is to place them back inside of the ARENA in their proper places BEFORE A MATCH BEGINS. His job (as a player), is to place it where it benefits him best & most in game strategy & game play, and to out think all the other players in association to the published rules.

The REFS jobs are to make sure those published rules are followed fairly by all...And there was no published rule against that particular action once gameplay actually began. (This old dog, was taught a new trick by a young high school student, and many more eventually, before the weekend was over! "Upsidedown & Untethered Tote Ramps" work very well as ramps too, right Joe?")

I don't want to be that instant Judge or Jury. (Their job is a tough one parsing Q&A vs. Rules & updates, official/unofficial, legal/not legal, all happening quickly during the gameplay, while there are thousands of really smart people, constantly testing the edges of said rules, looking for any legal strategy edge, to help them personally win the game). The GDC and the Refs are constantly tested in that manner, as are the RULES.

I loved another Ref's comment about those Yellow Totes sitting a full 5' outside of the Arena of Play (I did not see how they got there originally, only the final result during my usual prep walk), as he saw and witnessed my reaction from the other side of the field, my expressions, and my after game play ref questioning (this was practice day), and that I almost actually picked them up, and reset them back inside of it ~(The actual Arena carpeted area), during the game (I didn't, as I know better, but it surely crossed my mind more than once during the match, and right after, as I thought it was a Field Reset Crew mistake originally... He came over from the opposite side of the field (he could see me during the game), collared me and stated in my ear quietly...."They Just Found A Legal way to CHEAT LEGALLY, AND CHEAT THE GAME LEGALLY, that you didn't actually think of first, and you don't yet understand that fact, then he told me it happened earlier that day on the opposite end of the field, they discussed it as refs together in a usual pow-wow, and the results actually surprised him too!....And it is, why we all love FIRST! AMIRight?"

He was of course, absolutely right. And I walked away still shaking my head....It still just didn't compute (and it still doesn't), and I'm all about computers. It is, what I do.

Moral of the story...Keep testing the rules, and you too just may find an edge nobody else has even thought of yet students/mentors. I'm not imparting any secrets, as the actual gameplay is well documented in video and fully released by now, and witnessed live and in person by many.
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