Team 4536 Reveal #2

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by DanielPlotas

From what it looks like to me they start inside the Landfill.

It is hard to tell from the video since we do not have a full field. However our plan is to start each match with Zipline in the near zone on the scoring platform, connected to two of the three RCs in the near zone.

Our other robot, Zenith, will be a tote specialist, grabbing stacks of 5 from the feeder station and setting them beneath Zipline. Zipline will be the RC specialist, grabbing 2 RCs right at the start of auto and holding them up high until the stacks are made below.

Originally Posted by Boe

Looks good, but you may have some issues starting with those hooks in the can during autonomous.

As long as we are pulling up on the RCs and not putting any weight on them, we should be fine. Q283 and Q410 make me confident that we will not have any problems with auto placement.

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

I agree they may have some legality issues to talk through with the refs, but I really hope they are deemed legal.

We have no doubt that our setup is legal. That is, we will pass inspection and we will be able to play in each match with this robot. Our main concern will come in convincing the referees that Zipline's anchors and tower do not "support" the RCs in any way. The GDC and I have been going back and forth for a while now(Q479, 483, 487, 490), so I am hoping their response to Q490 will be in the affirmative, which should give our referees enough guidance to know that we don't "support" the RCs.

It is clear to me that Zipline does not "support" the RCs in any way, now I just need to make sure that our refs see things the same way I do.

[Cash4587]

I am pretty sure you cannot break the plane of the landfill at all before the match. As far as I know the Landfill is a three dimensional space in which you may not cross until Autonomous STARTS.

[pntbll1313]

Originally Posted by Cash4587

I am pretty sure you cannot break the plane of the landfill at all before the match. As far as I know the Landfill is a three dimensional space in which you may not cross until Autonomous STARTS.

Just so everyone is clear. I am positive this is not grabbing Recycling containers from the step.

Their entire design is about grabbing 2 of the 3 RC that are STAGING ZONE, lifting them up so that someone can make a 6 stack and push it under the lifted up RC's, then at the end of the match they set them down.

This is in no way a "Can Grabber". It is an RC capper that uses exactly 2 of the 3 RC's from the staging zone.

Originally Posted by DanielPlotas

Oh. I see now. I thought you guys were pulling cans off the step. I still don't think they will be legal, unfortunately. I can't cite a specific rule, but I believe that if a team like 148 had such an elaborate mechanism designed specifically to keep their robot from touching the cans pre-match, that there is little to no doubt about the legality of such a system.

148's ruling was not at all based on them touching the can's pre-match. Look up 2826 Wave Robotics robot to see that it is indeed legal to touch RC's prior to the match start.

[Kevin Leonard]

Two questions:
1) How do you make sure your hooks aren't being supported by the RC's at the beginning of the match?
2) How do you unhook the containers once they're on top of a stack such that they are not supporting the containers at all so that the containers are "only supported by gray totes" and count as scored?

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

Two questions:
1) How do you make sure your hooks aren't being supported by the RC's at the beginning of the match?
2) How do you unhook the containers once they're on top of a stack such that they are not supporting the containers at all so that the containers are "only supported by gray totes" and count as scored?

1) After placing our hooks inside of the RC, we slowly tighten the string by twisting the winch by hand. This pulls the hooks to the top of the RC, where they press up against the bottom of the lid. The RC does not hold up any of the weight, in fact, Zipline holds some of the weight of the RCs. Inspiration for this part of our design came primarily from team 2512 and their autonomous setup.

2) Since we never actually "grasp" the RC, we have no need to unhook at the end of the match. We do have little wings on the top of the hooks to make sure the RC doesn't get misaligned, but these do not grip the RC in any way. At the end of the match, we backdrive the winch until the line goes slack. The hooks remain in the RC, resting on the lid, however they do not hold up any of the RCs weight. In our opinion, there is no reasonable way to interpret this as support.

[DanielPlotas]

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

Look up 2826 Wave Robotics robot to see that it is indeed legal to touch RC's prior to the match start.

There are two videos of their autonomous, their reveal video, and Wisconsin semis #2. In their reveal video, their manipulator appears to move before a can does, implying it does not touch it. In Wisconsin semis #2, the video is not high enough quality to figure out whether or not it was touching the can. I don't see where you're getting that from.

[pntbll1313]

Originally Posted by DanielPlotas

There are two videos of their autonomous, their reveal video, and Wisconsin semis #2. In their reveal video, their manipulator appears to move before a can does, implying it does not touch it. In Wisconsin semis #2, the video is not high enough quality to figure out whether or not it was touching the can. I don't see where you're getting that from.

Sorry, you're completely right! I don't know how but I confused 2512 with 2826. Here is the robot I was trying to link to.

[DanielPlotas]

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

Sorry, you're completely right! I don't know how but I confused 2512 with 2826. Here is the robot I was trying to link to.

Sorry, but to me it doesn't look like they are touching either. If they could touch, then why would they need the large tube at the bottom, or the small tab that lifts up the string? Wouldn't they go with just a small hook? And if that were legal, I guarantee you we'd see so many more small hooks on a winch.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by DanielPlotas

Sorry, but to me it doesn't look like they are touching either. If they could touch, then why would they need the large tube at the bottom, or the small tab that lifts up the string? Wouldn't they go with just a small hook? And if that were legal, I guarantee you we'd see so many more small hooks on a winch.

It is legal to touch, but not to move the game pieces before the match.
Game Manual goes into more details on this.

From a blue box in section 3.1.4:

DRIVE TEAMS may not move, nor preload TOTES (regardless of color), RECYCLING CONTAINERS, or LITTER onto their ROBOT prior to the start of the MATCH per G13. There are no rules that prohibit a ROBOT from being in contact with TOTES or RECYCLING CONTAINERS at the start of the MATCH, as long as those items were not moved from their STAGING ZONE as described in the paragraph above.

[Isaac Ash]

Originally Posted by asid61

It is legal to touch, but not to move the game pieces before the match.

Yep. The robot starts by "hooking" onto the inside of the staging zone containers, but not clamping down on them. When being set up, the rope is pulled tight until it is applying slight upward force onto the container, which was deemed legal in Q410.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by DanielPlotas

There are two videos of their autonomous, their reveal video, and Wisconsin semis #2. In their reveal video, their manipulator appears to move before a can does, implying it does not touch it. In Wisconsin semis #2, the video is not high enough quality to figure out whether or not it was touching the can. I don't see where you're getting that from.

We are touching the handles of the RC before the start of the match. We are not supporting the RC at all the RC is fully suported by floor per the rules.

[DanielPlotas]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

It is hard to tell from the video since we do not have a full field. However our plan is to start each match with Zipline in the near zone on the scoring platform, connected to two of the three RCs in the near zone.

Oh. I see now. I thought you guys were pulling cans off the step. I still don't think they will be legal, unfortunately. I can't cite a specific rule, but I believe that if a team like 148 had such an elaborate mechanism designed specifically to keep their robot from touching the cans pre-match, that there is little to no doubt about the legality of such a system. Now, I'm not saying that just because someone else doesn't do it makes it illegal, bit more the lengths 148 went to to keep themselves from touching the cans reasonably leads me to believe that such a strategy is not legal.