Astronomically High Scores at Silicon Valley

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by themccannman

Also I didn't look that closely but I don't think they're ramp had any bearings on it, I'm pretty sure the totes just slid down. They made it as light as possible and bearings probably would have added more weight than allowable, they are very close to 120lbs at the moment.

They do use bearings for their ramp, either 0.500 or 0.625 OD mounted via 3/16 pop rivets. The frame is a carbon fiber tube with aluminum ribs and aluminum tubing.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Steven670

254's ramp looked like it used ball bearing rollers. I would have been more impressed if they hadn't totally ignored rule T6. They just had one guy carrying the ramp separately. I guess if the rule doesn't have a penalty it doesn't exist.

Thanks for assuming we were cheating, but if you had asked you would have found out the inspectors and refs decided teams should demonstrate that they can establish a compliant transportation configuration, but in the interests of saving time during setup should bring the robot on in it's starting configuration.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Steven670

In one match they just stopped at 254 points and sat waiting for the clock to run down.

254's ramp looked like it used ball bearing rollers. I would have been more impressed if they hadn't totally ignored rule T6. They just had one guy carrying the ramp separately. I guess if the rule doesn't have a penalty it doesn't exist. There was one time that the ramp ended up with its outer end back at the wall. I didn't see if it fell wrong or got pushed. 254 didn't even try to get the totes off it, they just mined the landfill.

Another thing I wondered about was the stack(s) the tether was touching at the end of the match. You can't really see it in the videos. The refs weren't checking if the tether was supporting the totes. Judging from the blue box in the game manual the stack(s) should have been de-scored. They definitely weren't doing that. If they did, it could really hurt 254, as it is tough to control such a long tether.

Still, the Poofs were way ahead of of everyone else. 1678 couldn't do as many stacks and probably messed up more often. 971 had a jamming problem getting totes from the human player. 368 had a lot of trouble with their 3 tote autonomous, although they seemed to get it working in the later matches. They also had problems with mis-fed totes. 846's ramp tended to jam and they had a lot of problems with stacks falling over.

Our own robot (670) amazed me with its reliability. We improved more since the CVR than 254 did, with about 3x the scoring. The only real blemish was when the drive team decided to try to do a six stack with bin instead of our usual five stack in the semifinals and it fell over because it was too heavy. They really should have tried that on the practice field first... We were only fighting over 3rd vs. 4th place anyway. We were too slow to make it into the finals.

Steven- if you are indeed a mentor of your team, I implore you to read your post as if you were a student on your team (or another team for that matter). What kind of message are you sending by trying to point out tiny nuances of other teams (who are obviously remarkably skilled)?

Quite honestly, its pathetic. Sorry for being so blunt, but your post really rubs me in a bad way.

-Brando

[AlexanderTheOK]

On the topic of high scores, I have watched several regionals and I believe Finals match 1 is the closest I have seen to utilizing all of the cans. If not for the can war mishap that gave 971 such problems during that match, I believe that would have been the high score of the season (excluding co-op because I really want to believe my conjectures to be true. XD). It also seems to be the first time an alliance's scoring ability was hindered by the result of a can war and lack of cans.

I'd like to think this match demonstrates that stealing cans REALLY well might actually be a possible method of defense. I know it has been hypothesized before, but this is the first time I have seen any real world effect.

Of course, if anyone can tell me of a match where there actually HAS maxed out can usage, I would love to admire it.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Cory

Thanks for assuming we were cheating, but if you had asked you would have found out the inspectors and refs decided teams should demonstrate that they can establish a compliant transportation configuration, but in the interests of saving time during setup should bring the robot on in it's starting configuration.

And that has been happening since the first week when they found out that trying to follow the rule slowed down the competition schedule too much. All of the other competitions have has the starting configuration set up since.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by themccannman

254 scored 254 twice, once in quals, once in elims (both with 1678, maybe we can score 1678 points at CMP?). Also our average was 170 just fyi. 5 vs 6 wasn't the difference in average, the difference was that 254 grabs a can off the step in teleop, we don't so we just run out of cans after 3 stacks. The ~30 point difference is about the value of one stack.

And 1678 scored 220 and 210 in quals matches, albeit also with very strong alliance members (971 & 846; 2085) that made those scores possible. The max for a team running on its own appears to be about 190.

[Citrus Dad]

BTW, the PNW districts had an amazing average score of 123. SVR was at 72; Lone Star at 84.

[forbes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderTheOK

Of course, if anyone can tell me of a match where there actually HAS maxed out can usage, I would love to admire it.

Finals match 1 at the Oklahoma regional used all the recycling cans (as I'm sure a couple other top matches have). Here is a picture of the stacks:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/41853

If either of the alliances had been able to get even 3 of the middle bins instead of 2 they would have been much more likely to win.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Steven670

Still, the Poofs were way ahead of of everyone else. 1678 couldn't do as many stacks and probably messed up more often. 971 had a jamming problem getting totes from the human player. 368 had a lot of trouble with their 3 tote autonomous, although they seemed to get it working in the later matches. They also had problems with mis-fed totes. 846's ramp tended to jam and they had a lot of problems with stacks falling over.

Our own robot (670) amazed me with its reliability. We improved more since the CVR than 254 did, with about 3x the scoring. The only real blemish was when the drive team decided to try to do a six stack with bin instead of our usual five stack in the semifinals and it fell over because it was too heavy. They really should have tried that on the practice field first... We were only fighting over 3rd vs. 4th place anyway. We were too slow to make it into the finals.

While 670 made a tremendous improvement this year, which you should be quite proud of, implying that you went past 971, 368, 846 (and you didn't even mention the best historic improver, 2085) would be disinenguous. Be happy about your accomplishments, but don't rest on your laurels.

[nuclearnerd]

Originally Posted by AlexanderTheOK

Of course, if anyone can tell me of a match where there actually HAS maxed out can usage, I would love to admire it.

I'm sure there are quite a few. I remember this one from Waterloo:
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015onwa_f1m1

edit- oops, scrap that, bad memory. There's one dropped can on the floor at the end. Close though!

[TikiTech]

Originally Posted by Cory

Thanks for assuming we were cheating, but if you had asked you would have found out the inspectors and refs decided teams should demonstrate that they can establish a compliant transportation configuration, but in the interests of saving time during setup should bring the robot on in it's starting configuration.

The robot inspection process was complete as every other regional, weight, BOM, transport configuration, etc..

The event ruling was if the starting configuration fit within the area of your robot cart then it was acceptable to transport to the field assembled.

We were using a simple hand truck for moving our robot around. If we orientated our robot so that our pickup system and lift prongs were not protruding, we could stay assembled.

This did truly speed up the match turn around times. And did not create any unsafe transportation conditions at the event that I was aware of.

It was our first time at SVR and would love to come back again. Thanks to everyone that made the regional a pleasant experience. Was great to see and work with the many high level teams showing how it can be done. Amazing!

Good luck to everyone heading off to champs!

Aloha!


Shout out to Devin, thanks for taking time out to "talk story" with us and helping with ideas for the future. Mahalo!

[Dog-n-Pony Show]

PNW had so many good teams that our #6 alliance had a Semi Finals average of 201.33 and STILL missed making the finals by 2/3 of a point. Does anyone know if any other competitions had 200+ SF averages that didn't make finals? This was teams 3663, 4450 and 4911.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by TikiTech

Shout out to Devin, thanks for taking time out to "talk story" with us and helping with ideas for the future. Mahalo!

It was my pleasure! I had a fantastic time at SVR meeting teams and making new friends. Working and talking with 3880, 5026, 5027, 254, 2035, 2135, 115, and 5728 was a blast! My only regret was not having enough time to get to know more teams. It seems my contacts list grows a few teams every event Citrus Circuits attends.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

And that has been happening since the first week when they found out that trying to follow the rule slowed down the competition schedule too much. All of the other competitions have has the starting configuration set up since.

Actually not accurate to state all other competitions have had the starting configuration set up allowed prior to reaching the field. At the LVR, we could NOT do so as the head referee decided to adhere to the letter of the rule...though as a member of the planning committee I tried to talk him into the "relaxation" of the rule since so many events had reported doing so in prior weeks. It was decided that we would wait and see if we were having trouble maintaining a reasonable cycle time. As it turned out we managed to stay on time and stayed within the rule. The question now is what will the practice be at Champs? It would be nice if FIRST would address this issue and all of us enter the event with the same expectations.

[TikiTech]

Originally Posted by JB987

Actually not accurate to state all other competitions have had the starting configuration set up allowed prior to reaching the field. At the LVR, we could NOT do so as the head referee decided to adhere to the letter of the rule...though as a member of the planning committee I tried to talk him into the "relaxation" of the rule since so many events had reported doing so in prior weeks. It was decided that we would wait and see if we were having trouble maintaining a reasonable cycle time. As it turned out we managed to stay on time and stayed within the rule. The question now is what will the practice be at Champs? It would be nice if FIRST would address this issue and all of us enter the event with the same expectations.

Agreed,

At the Hawaii Regional the transport configuration was required. Our team learned to quickly install and tear down our lift arms.

A few quiet verbal warnings might have been given. Well more like mentions on the loud speaker letting the audience know what the teams were up to before and after each match to comply with the transport rules.

Every team managed to comply without penalties.

Although after going to a much larger event I saw how much time was saved.

At the champs with so many variations and possible factory bots, I hope they do require the transport configuration. It was part of the design process that kept many elaborate designs shelved.

Looking forward to the championships!

Aloha