IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?

[BobbyVanNess]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

[*]Upside down totes - we haven't seen any robots work the upside down totes but it's possible we will it at champs. They are an interesting element to the game. Flipping them moves the landfill dimensions for pulling RCs from the step. So I vote leave the upside down totes.

Completely agree. Having looked into the geometry of a "can burglar" system, the geometry is pretty tight for the common dual arm mechanism, and losing the 2 or 3 inches from flipping the upside down totes would throw off many teams.

[SoccerTaco]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

Remove the chute door....

The Q&A would need updated...

Chute door?
No chute door.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Let the alliance captain pick where the teams are placed at driver station. Putting captain at position 2 is a dumb rule.

I'm really not sure why alliance station placement is a big deal all of a sudden. It's not like it's any worse really than previous years. I would think that consistency isn't a bad thing. I quite honestly see nothing remotely wrong here.

- Don't remove co-op, add bonus points for extra stacking.
- Allow co-op totes to be used as grey totes in any match (Elims and Quals)
- Don't put RC's over the wall (please)
- Remove noodle throwing (Penalty for each noodle over the step)
- Autonomous is very broken, too much of an all or nothing situation. Shouldn't fix it as it severely degrades the 3 tote autos significantly
- Keep the step
- Remove totes from step
- Put 2 more RC's on the step.
- Flip upside down totes in landfill.
- Keep stack limit

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

I'm really not sure why alliance station placement is a big deal all of a sudden. It's not like it's any worse really than previous years. I would think that consistency isn't a bad thing. I quite honestly see nothing remotely wrong here.

Because some robots work at particular stations and it's sort of dumb their drivers are forced to operate from the other side of the field (wide ways).

It's a step backwards from last year where alliances could select. And it had arguably less impact last year than this year....

[EricH]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

I'm really not sure why alliance station placement is a big deal all of a sudden. It's not like it's any worse really than previous years. I would think that consistency isn't a bad thing. I quite honestly see nothing remotely wrong here.

I do.

This year, being able to be close to your HP is critical if you're a chute-loading robot. Imagine loading from the right HP station, while you're in driver's station #1. 973 used a workaround--20' long cables--but that workaround is specifically ruled illegal by T6-1's blue box (they're way out of range).

It USED to be that you'd be rearranged every match in elims. Now you're locked into the same station every. single. match. that. you. play. If you prefer loading from one side or the other, and you're on the "wrong" side, you're toast.

But if you allow the AC to say "We want to be X order", and they can't change it unless they're swapping a robot out, you allow all the alliances to perform at full capability.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by EricH

if you allow the AC to say "We want to be X order", and they can't change it unless they're swapping a robot out, you allow all the alliances to perform at full capability.

I agree. Especially at IRI, where the idea is to get the best teams in the world performing at an insanely high level, alliance station placement shouldn't be limiting teams. This wouldn't change anyone's strategy (no one, to my knowledge, designed around the assumption that they'd be at the right-hand driver station in every match), it would just make high scores a little more accessible and matches a little more exciting.

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Remove all totes from the center step. Divide center step into a number (~10) of equal sized zones. Recycling containers will be placed in these zones on the step randomly (using a random number generator) after robots are placed on the field.

I'd say put the recycling containers in all the possible zones, but have the pitch such that existing two-can grabbers will still work. That way you can still use existing mechanisms from the arms race without the resource contention aspect.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

It's a step backwards from last year where alliances could select. And it had arguably less impact last year than this year....

What could alliances select last year that they can't select this year?

[gafftron]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

What could alliances select last year that they can't select this year?

At championships last year the alliance captain would submit a piece of paper to the Head Ref/FTA saying which robots would be playing in the match and which driver station they would be playing from.

This year it is always locked in that the captain is in the middle, first pick to the left, and 2nd pick to the right. And any robot that you are swapping in at champs will go into the driver station of the robot they are replacing.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Autonomous

• A la carte - could work but possibly harder to implement with the FMS, and changes the game a lot.
• Inclusive Auton Zone - my favorite solution, remove the completely contained in portion of the rule from robot, tote, and container sets. As long as any part of the tote, robot, or container is in the zone then it counts. Tote stacks still need to be fully in the zone. This would allow tether bots to get robot sets, and more container sets from containers off the step. Simple solution that makes auton a whole lot easier and slightly more worth while.

* On a related subject we should remove the landmark from the field. Field crews shouldn't have to tape it down. I haven't seen anybody use it for anything.

COOP/Gold Totes

• Remove COOP - It's interesting, but teams are built for it and we shouldn't punish them. Get rid of the penalty for knocking over stacks because that thing is just silly.
• Add Point Values for Higher Stacks - To many teams are built specifically for the 4 stack (see 118, etc), don't encourage redesigns
• Make Gold Totes worth points in stacks - this is simple and not too big of an advantage for the tote stack teams. It basically rewards the tote stack in auto by giving the team a 3 tote head start in telop, if they can use it. A lot of teams would have to just score it and move on since they need to pickup a container first. That's only a 6 point advantage if they can't put a container on them.
• Gold Totes worth more in stacks - This isn't so bad either, yes the tote stack robots would have some advantage but the other teams could just feed in the gold totes for the same advantage. I'm not sure how much this effects the game since basically they would be scored in most matches if the points were enough. Doesn't really help game play much and actually punishes in consistent tote stacks since the totes might end up sideways etc.
• Gold Totes as containers - I don't like this. If I have 3 "containers" I can keep in my feeder station and I only have to make stacks of 7 totes, I 'm going to do that every match and never worry about going and grabbing containers. A robot that is normally good for 2 stacks of 6 + RC, is easily able to do 3 full stacks if the gold totes count as containers. Plus some teams can't do 7 and that isn't their fault.

[tStano]

Allow multiple pieces of litter per recycling container. Ignore unprocessed and landfilled litter.

[RonAyyyyyyyy]

I really like the idea of a rule where you could not touch the RCs on a step until the three RCs on your side are in stacks. This would stop each match at IRI being determined in the first few seconds, and actually make it a true "race" to see who can stack three first.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by RonAyyyyyyyy

I really like the idea of a rule where you could not touch the RCs on a step until the three RCs on your side are in stacks. This would stop each match at IRI being determined in the first few seconds, and actually make it a true "race" to see who can stack three first.

This is a cool idea, and I kind of wish the game was structured this way to begin with.
It would make some cool strategies, like making three capped stacks of 1 quickly so you can grab the center RC's, or taking your time to use your three cans wisely.
It would also encourage more gray tote-stacking autonomous modes.

However, so many teams have invested so many resources into grabbing RC's during auto that this would change so much about the game.

[StAxis]

One simple change to throw the entire dynamic of the game.

Game pieces may cross over the step in the final 30 seconds with no penalty.

[Brandon_L]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet in this thread, I'm not going to read all 15some pages but from what I have read I have seen "Bring back best of three eliminations" mentioned a bunch of times.

I'm as opposed to this average business as the next guy, don't get me wrong, but a best of three elimination bracket does not work for this game. If it were a different game, sure, I would agree. However the isolation of each alliance doesn't make it a clear cut "Team A vs Team B - Team A won so team A is better". While team A may be better then team B, team B may be better then team C and D.

Sure, that can be the case in any other game too, but the key difference is alliance interaction, of which this game has none. To truly send the better teams forward in the 'playoffs' I believe the averages are necessary until only two teams remain.