Future First Championship News

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

On the Contrary, this seems to be a step towards Super Regionals; FIRST is introducing the North and South Super Regional as Championships for now. There's just not enough teams that would get a berth from super regionals to justify a championship smaller than both of them.

Once FRC has expanded to justify the addition of the East and West Super Regionals, they will add those, and reinstate a true championship.

Change hurts, and I my own concerns about the system for the time being, but I'm excited for the path they are taking towards a more scalable system.

Where are you getting your info? Inside guy?

Because in my opinion it would have made more sense to actually start the super-regional structure instead... and have the framework in place for future growth always under 1 championship. Not multiple championships....

[pastelpony]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

First Robotics Convention or Expo seems more accurate now.

Maybe bringing a robot will be optional in a few years.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by pastelpony

Maybe bringing a robot will be optional in a few years.

In terms of qual match performance, it will be pretty much optional by 2017.

Even now there will be teams at the World Championships essentially unable to score points (as there are every year).

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by pastelpony

Maybe bringing a robot will be optional in a few years.

Certainly could happen...

Ontario Soccer Association: Our Kids Play Soccer Without The Soccer Ball
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ont...e-soccer-ball/

"By removing the ball, it’s absolutely impossible to say ‘this team won’ and ‘this team lost’ or ‘this child is better at soccer than that child.'”

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

On the Contrary, this seems to be a step towards Super Regionals; FIRST is introducing the North and South Super Regional as Championships for now. There's just not enough teams that would get a berth from super regionals to justify a championship smaller than both of them.

Once FRC has expanded to justify the addition of the East and West Super Regionals, they will add those, and reinstate a true championship.

Change hurts, and I my own concerns about the system for the time being, but I'm excited for the path they are taking towards a more scalable system.

I feel that FIRST could make a super regional system with 600 teams without much a problem...

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

Jared's post hits home. A perspective that's formed from his experience on two HOF teams.

Before making decisions this big, I would hope that FIRST would have polled some of the community. Whether it be HOF teams, mentors, volunteers, etc. If they had, I doubt they would have received much support, if any for this change.

I really did think this was a prank when people where describing the news to me this morning...

[dodar]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

On the Contrary, this seems to be a step towards Super Regionals; FIRST is introducing the North and South Super Regional as Championships for now. There's just not enough teams that would get a berth from super regionals to justify a championship smaller than both of them.

Once FRC has expanded to justify the addition of the East and West Super Regionals, they will add those, and reinstate a true championship.

Change hurts, and I my own concerns about the system for the time being, but I'm excited for the path they are taking towards a more scalable system.

Cutting before measuring is always a bad thing.

Putting multiple championships may be viable way, way down the road. But you need the lower tier infrastructure first. And, as of now, they seem to be skipping all that.

[George1902]

FIRST, we need to have a quick chat about English.

You cannot have two "World Championships" because we only live on one World. What you have done is remove the concept of world champions.

To call it anything else is at best failing at English, and at worst lying and misrepresenting yourself.


[edit]Keeping this up since this was my honest gut reaction. I was corrected by Evan below.[/edit]

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

In terms of qual match performance, it will be pretty much optional by 2017.

Even now there will be teams at the World Championships essentially unable to score points (as there are every year).

considering some of the second picks that did nothing at elims stage and still won regionals this year. This problem definitely exists already and will only get worse.

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

...

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

As others have said, thank you for putting into words what I have been thinking since I read the news. I still find it hard to believe, and while I am almost positive this isn't the case, I hope this is a joke.

[Michael Blake]

IF they _really_ go through with this... I think some name changing is in order...

The FIRST National Semi-Finals

-and-

The IRI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP


--Michael Blake

[nuclearnerd]

Originally Posted by dodar

Ive seen all negative, some neutral, but not a single positive post; and thats counting as this is the 88th post.

I'm pro, on the condition that the change lets FIRST reduce the price of admission. We need to get the cost of running a successful team (a bot, one or two regionals, and a trip to champs) under 20 k$ if we're going to prevent half of all FRC teams from folding (which is what is happening currently). It's an existential problem for FIRST.

Selfishly, Detroit is going to be much easier for Ontario teams to get to. We could rely on private transport instead of renting a bus.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by George1902

FIRST, we need to have a quick chat about English.

You cannot have two "World Championships" because we only live on one World. What you have done is remove the concept of world champions.

To call it anything else is at best failing at English, and at worst lying and misrepresenting yourself.

Where does FIRST say "World Champions"?

[scooty199]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I seriously doubt the people making the argument for some kind of Champs logistical change get on ChiefDelphi at all. I'm talking about TIMS contacts who give the FRC Teams email an earful (eyeful?) about cost/etc. I hear stories directly from local teams trying to solve the problem of getting to champs, and I know for a fact I've never seen their team # on CD. I'm sure they're emailing FIRST directly trying to get info, resources, tips, etc.

As-is FRC Champs is a logistical nightmare. Let's say the DC region went to districts, and district champs were this coming weekend. How are the district champs winners getting to St. Louis? Certainly not flying at $600 per ticket (that doesn't get us there until 3pm...). Everyone's on a bus for 15 hours at that point.

If that makes me an apologist in some eyes, well ok then. To me, the only thing we can do is take what we see/experience and make a logical, thought-out argument for/against something like this or for other similar changes.

It seems like splitting up Champs is a logical next step for FIRST in general. Personally I think it makes more sense to split up Champs by program rather than geographic location, but that's my FRC-centric 0.02.

If we go with a sports metaphor, this announcement is more like AFC/NFC Champs, and IFI is the Super Bowl. Now if only we could get ESPN covering IFI ( :: ducks and covers :: ). Though I will really miss seeing the West Coast and MI powerhouses at the same event . Given that vacation is already scarce, I doubt I could attend both events as a volunteer at one of them and a team at the other.

I agree with you on splitting it up by program.

Have a location for FRC specifically, and one for FTC/FLL. The only downside I believe would be the schools/localities that have multiple programs across different levels. That split would be awful.

I think this split will devolve into a NCAA Tournament/NIT sort of comparison with a team split soon.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of becoming the World Champion.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the thought that at the World Championship, we can look at the world's best robots up close, ask those teams any questions we want, and make friends from all across the world.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the idea that on Saturday of the World Championship, we will see the "final act" of that year's game. The immovable object vs. the unstoppable force (60 vs. 71 in 2002). The most dominating robot ever built (1114 in 2008) against the field of challengers. The gamebreaker (469 in 2010) against the brilliant minds who were trying to figure out how to beat it. The ultimate 3-ball autonomous vs. the ultimate goalie robot.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of changing the culture by making FRC into an actual sport...the kind that non-participants will want to watch and follow (though for the first few years I admittedly didn't quite see it the same way I do now). Every year I cringe a little bit at that year's "twist" - FIRST has gotten Co-Opertition wrong more often than it has gotten it right - but there have always been moments where I think "wow, if every match was like that, this would be on ESPN".

I understand that growing FRC creates challenges that will necessitate change, but there are certainly other ways to do this than to shoot ourselves in the foot and eliminate one of the most universal elements of competition: A champion decided by a final title match(es).

It is clear with this decision that FIRST as an organization doesn't have quite the same set of goals that I do.

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

This will only be my 6th year in FRC, but this post really hits home for me.

I come from a region that has never even reached Einstein, and its one of the major goals many mentors from the PNW share. Being able to go to worlds, view all the INCREDIBLE robots, and see Einstein finals usually being the best matches played in FRC inspires us to push even harder. Only getting to see half the teams, and having to Einsteins is going to make the finals be basically the semi finals. The best of the best now will not happen in regular competition, which to me is basically unacceptable. Seeing the best of the best is what inspires me and my students to work harder each year to hit that goal.