Future First Championship News

[Kevin Leonard]

As a competitor, I'm very much against this decision.

I was drawn to FRC by the competition. In my freshman year of high school, my technology teacher showed the class some video of Team 20 competing in Breakaway. I saw Team 20's robot achieve a nail-biting win in the match I watched. It was awesome to me- students built a robot to compete with others- and not like Battlebots, where the only goal is destruction- but as respectful competitors in a sport-like environment.

I joined the team that fall and never looked back- not because I was all that interested in every part of the robot, but because FIRST is the best competition I've ever competed in.

I've been a part of competitive wrestling, swimming, diving, ultimate, and baseball, but FIRST is the best I've ever done- because anyone can win, all they have to do is be the smarter competitor, not have any inherent physical advantage. There's no name-calling in FIRST, there's little arrogance and no sabotage. FIRST showed me how to compete the right way in everything I do, not just robotics.

I'm now in college studying mechanical engineering at the Rochester Institute of Technology because of my FIRST experience. I wouldn't be here if FIRST wasn't a real competition. If FIRST goes through with this change, I see dozens of otherwise competitive, incredibly gifted students passing on the FIRST Robotics "Competition" because it's not a competition anymore at the highest levels.

You can't have two World Champions.

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

I hope if FIRST continues to pursue this solution, some other competition with full-size robots springs from the ashes FIRST leaves behind and gives students everywhere the competition they deserve.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Those circles are just plain wrong. The 750 mile radius doesn't extend past the midland region of south Carolina. You have them extending beyond the coast. There are teams in Georgia and South Carolina that won't be in those circles either.

Can someone find a sport in the world that has multiple world championships? First likes to call themselves the sport for the mind. Looks like they've got an identity crisis they need to solve.

I'm not sure I understand -- Detroit to Charleston, SC is 681 mi. as the crow flies. The circles absolutely should extend out beyond the coast if their radius is 750 mi.

[Hallry]

A quote from Don Bossi in the video:

One of he important things about FIRST and maybe what separates us from other sports is that we're an inclusive organization. We're about not picking a winner at the expense of others but celebrating everyone's accomplishments and success.

Well, then FIRST is not a sport.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

It is clear with this decision that FIRST as an organization doesn't have quite the same set of goals that I do.

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

This is a bit of a volatile hyperbolic statement which doesn't state anything fundamentally new in the STEM education world, don't you think? The rest of your post hits home, IMO. This last statement is just a distraction to me.

Many FRC teams are part of larger programs that utilize multiple 'vehicles' already (have you seen recent Chairman's videos?). FIRST programs are great general programs and use a great set of ideals to achieve FIRST's goals, but the programs themselves do not address every STEM education-related need this country already has.

[KeeganP]

Originally Posted by ehochstein

What are our constructive criticisms? How would we fix the system by 2017?

Setup a system with progressively bigger "zones" or "regions" with events. Create 4 "Sections" (N/S/E/W?) each with several districts in it. You compete at district events, go to district champs, go to section/region champs, and then go to world champs. Live stream all world champs events for teams that don't qualify, and keep the cost at $0 to attend workshops/watch matches if you aren't actively competing.

A 600 team champs event is great, but I feel it may be too big -- especially when a good portion of the teams going to champs this year "qualified" though the waitlist, instead of through winning (or being a finalist, etc.).

[Connor Mulkey]

The politically correct gloves are coming off for this one. I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. This doesn't even deserve constructive criticism, as some have suggested. You're only seeing destructive criticism because there is absolutely nothing defensible about this decision. It has no merits, and I can't help but feel betrayed by having this decision sprung upon me.

When I go to compete at a World Championship, I expect it to be a WORLD (representing all regions) CHAMPIONSHIP (one alliance winning it all by beating the best). I want to compete against ALL of the best teams. Who cares about winning one of these championships when you didn't have to beat 1114, 254, 2056, 67, 987, 118, 33, 469, and the rest of the top tier teams to earn the title? You may have beaten some of them, but you'll never know if your alliance was actually the best. It's extremely disappointing for there not to be only one alliance at the end of the year that can say they rose above all the others.

Anyone in the FIRST organization that thinks this is a good idea clearly does not understand this program or share the same goals as many of the teams that participate in it, and they should not be allowed to hold their position any longer. Making a decision like this is the quickest way to ruin this program, and I don't want to see that happen. This is a time for brutal honesty because they have to understand that this is not acceptable.

Don't be delusional. This is a competition. As a student, I competed to win, and my team's success on a world stage is what inspired me. There's nothing I hate more than calling everyone winners and handing out participation trophies. (Maybe that's their current plan for 2020 and beyond.) To be as blunt as I can be, there are simply not enough highly qualified robots to justify having two world events. There aren't enough championship-caliber teams right now to even justify having 600 teams at the current championship.

I understand this program is growing and must be expanded in order to keep up with that growth. But this is not how you do it. I hope you realize this after seeing how disgusted people are with this decision.

[arizonafoxx]

Add me to the list of people that don't like this idea. Why North and South? I could maybe see East and West but not North and South. It is the same cost for our team to travel to Huston or Detroit or St Louis. So we are not saving any money.

IRI Time to step up your event. You will need to become bigger and better so you can host the true World Champions and see who comes out winner. Who's ready for a multiple field IRI?

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by Madison

I'm not sure I understand -- Detroit to Charleston, SC is 681 mi. as the crow flies. The circles absolutely should extend out beyond the coast if their radius is 750 mi.

12 h 55 min (823.3 mi) via I-77 N

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=charleston+to+detroit+drive

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Well, then FIRST is not a sport.

A sport is defined as, "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

So, physical exertion aside, are you not entertained?

[George1902]

Originally Posted by MrRoboSteve

Attachment 18804

There you go.

Houston == South Super Regional
Detroit == North Super Regional

Once you have a big enough volunteer base, FRC champs returns.

I sincerely hope you are right. I also hope we hear from FIRST soon about these expansion plans.

This feels like a step backwards, but it might be a step back in order to take many steps forwards.

Here's hoping.

[Mackenzie W]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

BEGIN PEDANTIC NOTE




Just to clarify: IFI is a company that is a FIRST sponsor. IRI is an offseason competition in Indiana. The r and f are close on the keyboard and the acronyms are very similar but they are very different things.

END PEDANTIC NOTE


fully aware most arent reading, just posting

Thanks for correcting me, my apologies to IFI Edited.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by George1902

I sincerely hope you are right. I also hope we hear from FIRST soon about these expansion plans.

This feels like a step backwards, but it might be a step back in order to take many steps forwards.

Here's hoping.

You dont go from owning a Corvette to owning a Pinto so that you can eventually own a Ferrari.

[tmpoles]

A water game would've been a better idea than this

Imho, one of the best aspects of FIRST is getting to go to one final event with the best teams from the world, from Australia to Israel. If they do this, the diversity of teams that anyone would get to play with is seriously limited. Worlds should be the best of the best, if you need to make more districts to get the best together than do that (they're not highly popular, but effective). Separation is not the answer. You just can't have two Einsteins

[Loose Screw]

I'm very surprised they didn't follow FTC and create 4 super regionals. Usually FTC is testing grounds for FRC.

I personally don't like the way worlds is set up this year. Sure, with 600 teams there you can see the best from the entire world, but you can only compete with 1/8th of them. The alliances that move on to Einstein will be based on luck of who gets paired in the same division. Imagine if 1114 and 254 get paired in the same division, and the other power house teams get separated into the other 7 divisions. You could almost determine who will win worlds this year by which teams get paired in the same division.

If I were to change the way FRC is structured, I would create 4 super regionals, then 1 world championship with only 1 division. I would also try to change an element of the game to make it more competitive, then allow teams to keep their robots unbagged (or allow significant unbag time) so they can properly adjust to this change. Basically FIRST-run IRI.

If FIRST wants to keep the competition part of FRC, they should never remove defense completely again. I still think 2011 MSC Finals were some of the most exciting matches I've seen. The #1 alliance was defeated by the #8 alliance based on strategy alone. Einstein that year was disappointing compared to MSC.


TL;DR

Create 4 super-regionals so many teams get the "worlds" experience.

Reduce the total number of teams that compete at worlds so there's one division of the best teams of the world.

Keep defense in FRC. Strategy is more exciting than a showcase. If I wanted a showcase, I would watch reveal videos.

[George1902]

Originally Posted by dodar

You dont go from owning a Corvette to owning a Pinto so that you can eventually own a Ferrari.

But you might sell your house and rent a few years until you can buy a better house.