Future First Championship News

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Rachel Lim

I agree.

Thanks though, to Sunshine and to both of you for catching it before I even saw the post...
EDIT: And to Munchskull and to whoever else may end up replying.

My deep apologies Rachel. Again, your wisdom is greater than this old man's.

[Alyssa]

"There's plenty of room on the top for everyone" ... it's not a top if everyone is there.

[Cory]

I spent all morning being too angry/disappointed/stunned to be able to even post.

Still probably can't sum it up better than Jared did, so I will largely echo his comments.

It's amazing how fast FIRST was able to burn two years worth of goodwill fostered by Frank's openness and approachability, in one fell swoop. I fear we will look back and mark today as the day FRC began it's death throes.

FIRST has shown their true colors. They don't really care about the team experience. They don't even understand what the team experience is. If they cared, or understood what was important, they would have sought feedback before they decided to throw out the entire plan for expansion that they rolled out to us on their country-wide tour in the offseason 2-3 years ago.

Instead they chose a plan that will give them the most registration dollars, is just as inconvenient for teams on the west and east coasts as it was before, and will severely limit the opportunities for inspiration when students are not exposed to teams from other geographic locations.

We are paying FIRST large amounts of money. We are the customer. FIRST seemed like they were listening to our concerns (to some extent), but until there exists an alternative for us to take our dollars to, they know we are their hostages. The only way we can get the change we want is to take our dollars elsewhere, either to another competition program, or to boycott FRC and not compete.

As Jared has, I have dedicated 15 years of my life to this program...I don't think I can justify continuing to do that come 2017, if this change comes to fruition.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

First (C) This it the last year for the undisputed worlds FRC champion!!! So bring your A game

In the video, FIRST specifies that we'll still have a single Championship event next year. 2017 is the first year with two "Championship" events.

[LeelandS]

So I've sat here and read every post on the 16 pages of content in this thread. And it has made me very depressed. Not because of the decision by FIRST. But because of the response by the community. I've seen a lot of downward spiral on Chief in the last few years, so I don't know why I'm surprised anymore.

There are very few people in the CD community who I look to for inspiring words and knowledge on subjects. And here now I see that most of them are saying they are going to leave unless FIRST changes their decision. True, that is their right. If they don't like it, they are obviously not obligated to continue to stay. But these people were my role models. Not any more.

I've never had the luxury of being on a team with the competitiveness or finances to attend worlds every year. \So if the structure changes, what do I know about it? I love FIRST and I will always continue to be a part of it, as long as I am able.

I guess the most disappointing part to me about this whole thread is most of us have spent the last several years since Frank stepped into his position showering social media with phrases like "Good Guy Frank!" or "Frank for President!". A relatively overwhelming positive response. He has shown us consistently that he cares about what we have to say; he shows us that he reads what people post on CD and most often will respond to it in his blog. Frank cares. Frank tries to give us everything we need to have a positive experience. It looks to me like everyone has disregarded this fact and just hopped onto an angry mob mindset. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe Frank will be addressing the concerns of the community in the future.

Yes, it's an interesting change. Yes, I respect it devalues the experience of a world championship event. Yes, I understand that a lot of people are upset they won't get to see friends at world.

Weird, it's almost like we are part of a program that allows us to have an active off-season period that can be just as exciting and enriching as the official season. People have already echoed that IRI will be the "true world championship." That has been said for years now. There are events all over the country where teams come from all over the world to compete. Not just IRI. Chezy champs, Rah Cha Cha Ruckus, Battlycry, MARC. And others. There are options.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by MissDaisyGirl

I'm going to leave a few things here that basically encompass just part of the feelings I'm having:

Philadelphia to St. Louis: 2 hr, 25 min
Philadelphia to Houston: 3 hr, 30 min
Philadelphia to Detroit: 1 hr, 35 min

Detroit is a winner, right? No. Is everyone overlooking the fact that Detroit is the most dangerous city in America? Its clear that the people making these decisions have never once in their life chaperoned 50 high school students through a large metropolitan environment.

"Violent crime rate: 2,137 per 100,000 residents
The Motor City tops the list of America's Most Dangerous Cities for the fourth straight year thanks to a stubborn problem mostly with gang-related violence. Violent crimes fell 10% last year but are still running five times the national average."
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

Isn't STL #2 or #3 on that list (I recall seeing Detroit, Flint, STL in the top spots but can't recall the order)

Truth, I haven't really been following it. I've walked alone, at night, in all three of them. There are sections that I certainly wouldn't walk alone at night (or with a team at night) but there are also sections I'd feel completely safe in.

Disclaimer - I'm a Michigan native, I grew up 45 minutes from Detroit and went to college in Flint.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

The location choices are lnteresting. not sure it's going to save my team any money. Both Houston and Detriot are out of the question in terms of driving distance from SC. I miss having the championship in my backyard.

We drove to Atlanta pretty much every year. The drive is not as bad as you might think.

[WillRobinson]

Originally Posted by alyssa2485

"There's plenty of room on the top for everyone" ... it's not a top if everyone is there.

Great comment! Recommended as quote.

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Wow 7 pages in barely 3 hours. Sorry I have not read all of them. So sorry if this is a me too.

First (a). I am amazed that they kept this a secret. Also a little input to the people it effects would have been be nice.

First (b) I am not looking as forward to a 600 team worlds as years past. It is going to be a logistical nightmare. Especial for the one responsible for transport the pits. Other have expressed concerned about QF matches with 64 team in the dome. So something had to give.

First (C) This it the last year for the undisputed worlds FRC champion!!! So bring your A game

First (D) I numbered this post to be consistent with the new world order.

Next year is the last year.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by IKE

We drove to Atlanta pretty much every year. The drive is not as bad as you might think.

I have fond memories of that drive. Get a coach bus. Put overload mentors in a van and drive down. Take turns at the wheel. Put a couple chaperones on the coach, or college mentors who need to do homework. Schedule stops at exits with multiple fast food restaurants. Watch bad movies (ahem, Red Green Show) and sing songs. It's like a 10 hours summer camp with your best buds.

Plus, the ride back is great: sleep. sleep. sleep. recover.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by JesseK

This makes much more sense. Given that Champs is insanely large with 3 programs what would be your (or the Poofs') vision for FRC's future?

I only ask this specifically from the Poofs because (most) every post I've read from a Poofs mentor that has been proactive has produced insanely good ideas (some of which we don't realize how good until much later). The Poofs also produce incredible results when you put energy and focus into an effort. I think it's a fair statement that many teams already ask themselves "What Would the Poofs Do?" for many strategic and design decisions, so what would the Poofs do here?

I can only speak for myself, but I thought FIRST was on a really good trajectory with their Districts->Super Regional->World Championship concept. I think it's possible to implement that in a way that provides realistic (but difficult) goals to most teams, reduces team costs, keeps it to the same number of days of missed work/school and travel, and maintains a really high competitive bar at the Championship.

The Championship itself would need to become more spectator friendly in order for many of the benefits of co-locating the world's best to continue to hold, and it would be awesome for it to become the sort of event where teams send students to be inspired, learn from, and be entertained by some really awesome robots and teams. That's a stepping stone to it becoming an event where even non-FRC participants will show up or tune in in significant numbers.

[nuclearnerd]

Originally Posted by MissDaisyGirl

The Motor City tops the list of America's Most Dangerous Cities for the fourth straight year thanks to a stubborn problem mostly with gang-related violence. Violent crimes fell 10% last year but are still running five times the national average."
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

You know that that article has St. Louis as 2nd most dangerous right? We manage to chaperone thousands of kids through that city, and I haven't heard of any violent crime injuring FIRSTers yet (I hope I'm not mistaken).

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

I can only speak for myself, but I thought FIRST was on a really good trajectory with their Districts->Super Regional->World Championship concept. I think there's a way to implement that in a way that provides realistic (but difficult) goals to most teams, reduces team costs, keeps it to the same number of days of missed work/school and travel, and maintains a really high competitive bar at the Championship.

The Championship itself would need to become more spectator friendly in order for many of the benefits of co-locating the world's best to continue to hold, and it would be awesome for it to become the sort of event where teams send students to be inspired, learn from, and be entertained by some really awesome robots and teams.

This might be a good point to start some constructive discussion.

I'm also a fan of the district->district CMP->super regional->CMP concept. The only true concern I have with it is the amount teams will most likely have to spend in just registration costs for 4 tiers of events assuming they go all the way. If any one of those tiers (or more if FIRST wants to be nice) were free for teams it could work. Perhaps district CMP? 5k/year for the entire district model sounds fair. Meanwhile less populated areas still in regionals would pay the same amount with one less tier, dropping DCMP and just having a single regional with winners moving on to the super regional.

[KelliV]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

I have fond memories of that drive.

Same here. As an adult busses sound lame but man as a kid an 10+ hour drive with your friends is amazing. (Especially with awful movies like Vertical Limit which we watched at least 5 times).

The locations aren't bad, I disagree with the concept of two separate championships. It's like stopping at the final four and never crowning a true winner. That's what frustrates me. Hopefully FIRST reads these and sees that there is an issue with this decision and reevaluates things. That's one thing that I respect Frank for. He always takes the time to reevaluate things and make changes, even if it isn't exactally what he wants to do he listens and makes educated decisions, I hope he does that this time too.

[Steven Smith]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

So I've sat here and read every post on the 16 pages of content in this thread. And it has made me very depressed. Not because of the decision by FIRST. But because of the response by the community. I've seen a lot of downward spiral on Chief in the last few years, so I don't know why I'm surprised anymore.

<snip>

People are hurt... it's a big change, and it is scary. Deep down, I'm guessing many of us know that there will be a compromise, a longer term plan, appropriate discussions that get us closer to where we want to be. However in the near term, having the "World Champs" experience we know and love dramatically changed by literally splitting the community into two events... sucks?

And I don't see it to be any more contradictory to be vocal and frustrated at this announcement despite heaping praise onto FIRST/Frank in the last couple years... than to claim that people you have looked to as role models for years are no longer your role models because they are venting their frustration.

Frankly, this just caught a huge number of us by surprise today... and people are reacting. It doesn't mean people are immature, it doesn't mean they "value championship titles over students", or any other over-simplification. The details we were provided were not sufficient to ensure the championship experience we have today will either be maintained, or there is a path to it... so a number of folks are venting their frustration.