Future First Championship News

[topgun]

Well, IRI will become the true Championship.

Is this some kind of record for the fastest thread growth on Chief Delphi? Posted at 10:19 a.m. and already 20 pages of comments.

[George Nishimura]

Originally Posted by KeeganP

I wonder if an important question we need to ask ourselves is, "Is FRC a sport?"

Both methods inspire people, and both methods attract different audiences. Which "track" does FRC want to follow?

Here's one "answer", from the announcement post itself:

we are expanding the FIRST Championship by bringing our Sport for the Mind™ to two FIRST Championship host cities.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter

But isn't most of the stuff in the kit donated anyway?

FIRST does have to purchase some of the required components. I don't think a company like CTRE could afford to donate 2500+ PDP's, VRM's and PCM's.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

and has no effects on teams on the coasts.

I think a 200+ mile increase in travel is an effect.

Originally Posted by MikLast

Spokane to Houston: 2,118 miles
Spokane to Detroit: 2,071 miles

Spokane to St. Louis: 1,805 miles

I thought i heard something about cost saving?

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I envisioned the death of World Championships as we know it to come by the end of this decade (and Im not sure there is anyone who is remotely aware and active in FRC/FIRST who thinks otherwise.

I saw an ideal endgame would be to take the idea of World Championships and turn it into something like a super-IRI. A weekend in July has a 150 team event with two fields. Take the 16 super regional winners, the 4 HoF Finalists, the top 25-30 points earners over the season from each zone, and the final 10-30 spots that would be determined as some kind of wild card: a mixture of HoF teams that didn't make the points cut, the top rookies in the world, top points earners at every super regional that didn't make the cut (like a most-improved).

It's largely an exhibition, just like World Championships of any high school sport. It should be run by FRC, but you can call the award something like The Director's Cup. You can adjust the game rules to improve play at a high level, you disregard bag time, and you don't pay a registration fee to go.

You get 2 months to prepare for a truly magnificent spectator driven version of FRC. It's the All-Star game, the midsummer classic of robotics, and it's globally televised by Fox Sports 1 or NBC Sports or ESPN. They sponsor the telecast to remove the registration fees. They get two months to go out and interview and shoot b-roll of top competitors for segments. You get two fields so play doesn't have long lulls. You put the competition on a Friday and Saturday in the summer to avoid people losing vacation days or school time. You get to keep FIRST's idea of providing a championship type experience at what I think would better be known as "Zone Championships" and the idea of World Championships carries on in the FRC Grand Prix. People from all over the FRC world can come to watch and learn from the best teams. At the end, you crown the Chairman's Award Winner and the 3 Winner's of the President's Cup.

This. 100 times this. The two things in play here (crowning the ultimate champion, hosting a huge FIRST celebration with the best teams there) do not necissarily have to be the same thing.

For a long time, every single team in FIRST got to have the championship experience every year. Later, every single team got to have it every two years, then every four years. For most of FIRST's history, this was a prominently stated objective of the way championship registration worked: for every student to get to experience an FRC world championship at least once. But more recently, this objective got further and further away from reality, and in the past few years, teams (district regions aside) have basically had to win an event/Chairman's/EI/Rookie All Star to get there. And for the most part, I think teams have been okay with this. It was a gradual progression, not an abrupt shift to the way they are now. And it makes sense for championships to be relatively exclusive -- just getting there is a pretty lofty goal, which teams work incredibly hard towards.

The dual championship model seems to be an attempt to bring things back to the way they were, and make the model where every few years, any team can simply sign up and have the championship experience, sustainable again. And while I think it's great for more students to have this experience, it can't come at the expense of having the championship be a championship, where the best of the best go head to head. Without that, you can't learn if you truly achieved the goals you set at the start of the year.

I would be perfectly okay with, and in fact enthusiastically support, a series of massive events designed to provide the championship scale experience, alongside a FIRST-sanctioned, relatively small (IRI size would be fine), championship event, so that teams still can get the experience of seeing the Michael Jordans, Tom Bradys, and Clayton Kershaw's of FIRST playing to determine championships, and inspiring them to get to the biggest stage in FIRST someday.

[s_forbes]

I like how I only ever have to read the first post in a thread to know what the consensus on CD is. Saves me quite a bit of time.

[madhav]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I am willing to hold another FRC Championship in my culdesac. No guarantees but we can probably fit more teams than Waterloo.

I'll volunteer my uncles' farm.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

I think three tiers is about as many as people can tolerate, which means District CMP needs to change into a Super Regional, or District CMP needs to qualify fewer teams for the World Championship. At some point, it's okay to have branching tiers of competition so that too many people aren't one and done (Champions League vs. Europa League in European soccer is probably a better comparison than NCAA vs. NIT).

Do you feel that combining MAR, NE, and the soon to be VA district into one mega district with its own DCMP would be the answer to cut out a tier? Maybe top x ranked teams from each current district area move on to a Northeast Mega District? From the perspective of strictly competition, sure it could work, but I'm a fan of how districts are currently set up. It gives some lesser/mediocre teams an obtainable goal (reaching DCMP).

[George Nishimura]

The following is a transcribed extract (divided in two) from about 5:12 in the video. I think the video does a better job than the post in communicating FIRST's reasoning.

..we don't have all the details yet. We've got this big picture vision of how Championship is going to evolve and sort of where we'll be at which weekend and in which year. We're very excited about it but we got a lot of details that we have to work out across all of our programs...

My reading is that the only thing that FIRST have done is book venues for the four years (2017-2020), which they were forced to do (current St Louis deal expires).

The difficulty was having to book venues that would work in 2020, considering the current model was not sustainable (there is probably not one venue fairly located, big enough and affordable for FIRST in 5 years time based on current growth trends).

So they solved the logistical problem first, and now they have two very large venues, on two separate weekends, which they have to package in to a utilitarian (greatest good for the greatest number) solution. Their emphasis is on "the greatest number" part, with side benefits of reduced average travel costs and probably increased sponsor presence.

... and we know that those details are important. In fact we want to engage members in the FIRST community to help us come up with the best solution and to think about what might be the best approach to some of these things...

This is the most frustrating part: why now, when there is probably very little wiggle room to work with?

Finally, the biggest question for me is where does this put the district system? I thought the plan was to get all districts by 2017, thereby circumventing this problem?

[arizonafoxx]

If anyone ends up making a T-Shirt protesting this decision please PM me. I will buy a shirt and wear it proudly at Champs.

[StAxis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I envisioned the death of World Championships as we know it to come by the end of this decade (and Im not sure there is anyone who is remotely aware and active in FRC/FIRST who thinks otherwise.

I saw an ideal endgame would be to take the idea of World Championships and turn it into something like a super-IRI. A weekend in July has a 150 team event with two fields. Take the 16 super regional winners, the 4 HoF Finalists, the top 25-30 points earners over the season from each zone, and the final 10-30 spots that would be determined as some kind of wild card: a mixture of HoF teams that didn't make the points cut, the top rookies in the world, top points earners at every super regional that didn't make the cut (like a most-improved).

It's largely an exhibition, just like World Championships of any high school sport. It should be run by FRC, but you can call the award something like The Director's Cup. You can adjust the game rules to improve play at a high level, you disregard bag time, and you don't pay a registration fee to go.

You get 2 months to prepare for a truly magnificent spectator driven version of FRC. It's the All-Star game, the midsummer classic of robotics, and it's globally televised by Fox Sports 1 or NBC Sports or ESPN. They sponsor the telecast to remove the registration fees. They get two months to go out and interview and shoot b-roll of top competitors for segments. You get two fields so play doesn't have long lulls. You put the competition on a Friday and Saturday in the summer to avoid people losing vacation days or school time. You get to keep FIRST's idea of providing a championship type experience at what I think would better be known as "Zone Championships" and the idea of World Championships carries on in the FRC Grand Prix. People from all over the FRC world can come to watch and learn from the best teams. At the end, you crown the Chairman's Award Winner and the 3 Winner's of the President's Cup.

This sounds like a fantastic way to accomplish the goals of both sides. Making it a small event (sub 100 teams total) makes it extraordinarily prestigious. I know a lot of teams (my team included) seem to begin to expect they will make it to champs every year. Having it be a huge deal for anyone to make it to champs would be a lot of fun. Sure you have your 1114's and 254's that always qualify, but you cut down on a lot of teams that land in that middle tier, and it becomes a massive goal to make it to championships.

On top of that, it also suits the popularization of it better with a short event that a major network can broadcast, instead of 2 separate 4 day events.

I would be thrilled to see FIRST take this route instead of the chosen path.

[waialua359]

As a VEX and FRC programs participating school, I do hope that we are still able to do both as 2014 was very disappointing to having to split our programs apart.

I have just one suggestion Frank.
Is it possible to have a team qualify for both World Championships for winning multiple events?

Just a thought.....

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I have just one suggestion Frank.
Is it possible to have a team qualify for both World Championships?
IF, the team earns 2 spots during the season, where we can elect, NOT to give out a wild card, but instead use it to compete at both championships back to back weekends?
Just a thought.....

You will only be able to attend one Championship and which one that will be will be geographically assigned.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

Do you feel that combining MAR, NE, and the soon to be VA district into one mega district with its own DCMP would be the answer to cut out a tier? Maybe top x ranked teams from each current district area move on to a Northeast Mega District? From the perspective of strictly competition, sure it could work, but I'm a fan of how districts are currently set up. It gives some lesser/mediocre teams an obtainable goal (reaching DCMP).

Ironically, multiple district championships might be the best answer here. Keep districts+points the same as they are. Play the NE/MAR/VA district championships. Chairman's/EI/RAS/Winning alliances from each qualify for Worlds, plus the top point earners with teams from all three regions mixed together. This would keep the travel costs to a minimum, by not introducing more than one tier which requires the high travel costs of championships.

[pwnageNick]

Originally Posted by waialua359

IF, the team earns 2 spots during the season, where we can elect, NOT to give out a wild card, but instead use it to compete at both championships back to back weekends?
Just a thought.....

I think that would probably come off a bit selfish.. to deny a team a wild card slot to champs so you can go to both..