Future First Championship News

[jman4747]

Originally Posted by JVN

While I actually agree with most of your points, I get frustrated when people assume that just because I'm from 148 I don't understand "programatic issues" which apply to all teams, including teams not like my own. I assume Cory shares this frustration, and perhaps you shouldn't "put that on him" without talking to him.

To imply any knowledge of where Cory's head is at, to imply he has blind spots about aspects of the program implies a level of familiarity with his thinking that is probably inappropriate.

"You don't know him, why are you acting like you do?"

Sorry if I'm out of turn but I think what Keven was saying in the quoted text was that it may not be fair to the staffer to hold it against them if they are unfamiliar with a certain team. Even if said team preforms well and is well known to many other participants. I don't think it was denouncing anyone.

[Louis_]

I might as well break my "I will always lurk on CD and never post.

I'm not sure how I really feel about, mostly because I'm only a sophomore so I don't have a lot of experience. I went to worlds last year, that was definitely one of the greatest times in my life. Going into this year I was really unhappy with the game. Starting from Aerial Assist and going to Recycle Rush was very depressing. Last year my team focused on defense, so to see a game with no defense was disheartening.

Along with this, I've had issues in my life as to whether I continue to pursue my role on my robotics team. As the drive team coach and the head of the electrical team I'd feel bad if I just left. But as this year progresses I just see more and more things I don't like coming from FIRST. I really hope the community can change what is going on, or else I'm not sure if I really want to keep doing this.

[Jared Russell]

I think criticizing whomever answers the phone at FIRST HQ is a little ridiculous. Come on now. The implication that there is a divide between FIRST HQ and the teams might be valid, but we're jumping the shark.

I will never hold it against anyone to not know who a particular team is. My ego is not that large.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by KeeganP

It appears that lobbying for change, publicly expressing your opinion, and talking with others about change makes you a child. In fact, just go along with whatever happens, because there's no point in trying to change anything -- let it all happen as it is.

I said two things were childish. The second was suggesting this means FRC is going to start handing out Champs participation trophies in the KoP or for simply showing up at Champs. That's ridiculous, will never happen, and suggesting it is a cheap rhetorical trick, not a serious argument against 2 Champs. It's childish.

The first was calling HQ mere hours after a major policy shift that won't have an effect till 2017 and demanding some random phone staffer explain the reasoning behind said policy. While teams are trying to manage 2015 Champs registrations and bookings. As I noted, nothing's going to change from people exploding at HQ today. All calling today would do is muck things up for teams trying to handle 2015 Champs. If you want to lobby for change, be smarter about it and organize. Don't take your knee-jerk reaction and start harassing random people that can't do anything about it. That's childish.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

No. No, no, no, no. First, congrats on disincentivizing 1st seeds picking 2nd seeds. 2nd seed sure would think twice about accepting if winning meant they'd only go to the Loser's Championship.

Not sure if post was unclear, but meant the 2nd and 3rd picks as in 17th-32nd picks of the serpentine drafts - you know, the teams that "ride the coat-tails" of the 1st and 2nd seed.

Second, yes, you really would be creating a Loser's Championship. Your whole purpose is to create a "real" Champs with all the "good" teams, and, well, that other Champs with all those other teams. Two geographically segregated Champs may or may not be a good idea, but I'm pretty sure a "premier" Champs and "that other" Champs is a terrible one for the health of the community.

There would still be a competition, and while in this scenario the winning alliance in the non-premier event wouldn't be able to claim to be the World Champions, winning an event that big would still be an impressive feat.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm leaving my frustration at harrassing HQ staffers, however. And I'm curious what Cory finds "sadly unsurprising" about an HQ staffer never having been to a competition or never having heard of 254 or 1114.

I would never expect someone answering phones at FIRST HQ to know everything about FIRST and FRC - that's just an unrealistic expectation - but it would make me feel better if they were involved in and at the least bit knowledgeable of the programs that they work in. I wouldn't want a perspective new team to call in with questions and have the people answering the phones unable to help them. What does it say about an organization when its representatives aren't even aware of the main happenings within their area of work? How could FIRST tell us to look up to these example teams when their own faculty are unaware of the amazing contributions these teams have provided to their organization? How do they not know 254 when Barrage is literally sitting at FIRST HQ?

[George Nishimura]

Would people really see a "Division II tournament" as Loser's Championship? There's no respect for being among the top ~25% best teams in the world?

I would think having a greater opportunity to be a big influence and win is motivating enough, let alone being able to meet and play with a lot of new robots for the first time. And since when were only the top 10% the only inspiring teams?

Honestly, in terms of competition achievement, I'd take a deep run in to play-offs of any championship over qualifications, regardless of the tournament. I think either would be inspiring and fuel for the following years.

For reference, in my head I'm ranking teams based on a district-like points basis.

[bduddy]

I'm curious about one thing. Many have (rightly) lambasted FIRST for, among other things, devaluing the championship experience.
But whenever I, or a few other people, try to argue that districts are devaluing the regional experience, the argument is largely ignored. Why is that? Are they not as similar as I think, is it because the benefits of districts are more obvious, is it because most frequent posters here always go to championships...?

[Alyssa]

According to FIRST, "2 is better than 1". I suppose quantity is better than quality then...

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Noted, and chastened. I retract the implication that Cory et. al. have said blind spots, assume everyone must know about 254, etc. I'll edit the post to reflect that better.

I'm leaving my frustration at harrassing HQ staffers, however. And I'm curious what Cory finds "sadly unsurprising" about an HQ staffer never having been to a competition or never having heard of 254 or 1114.

I assumed he spoke with someone in team support who is familiar with the program. In retrospect that could clearly be a false assumption.

In general I was expressing frustration that there is a huge disconnect between HQ and what the "team experience" is. Obviously we have seen good steps taken to address that by Frank, but then they go and do something like release this without having sought out any team feedback, at which point they (very predictably) get nearly unanimously negative feedback. There surely was a better way to do this.

If it turns out we don't know the whole story (as Dave hinted to earlier in the thread) then it was silly for FIRST to not tell the whole story at the right time, in order to avoid all the outrage in the first place.

[robochick1319]

I wonder if a lot of the anger or frustration stems from there not seeming to be any consultation with actual FRC teams. We receive surveys after every single week of regionals because (theoretically) FIRST cares about our experience. I always found that reassuring.

But having 2 Championships dropped on us seemingly out of the blue is pretty shocking. Did no one see this coming? Was there some sort of secret poll or whispers going on last year?

When things change in FIRST, there's usually a few people who at least know the thinking behind the HQ decisions.

[ForLeTheory]

Originally Posted by MysterE

From: http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/2017-...p-announcement

I like the concept, but it disappointing that not every team can compete againist each other.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

Would people really see a "Division II tournament" as Loser's Championship? There's no respect for being among the top ~25% best teams in the world?

I would think having a greater opportunity to be a big influence and win is motivating enough, let alone being able to meet and play with a lot of new robots for the first time. And since when were only the top 10% the only inspiring teams?

Honestly, in terms of competition achievement, I'd take a deep run in to play-offs of any championship over qualifications, regardless of the tournament. I think either would be inspiring and fuel for the following years.

For reference, in my head I'm ranking teams based on a district-like points basis.

Not a "Losers championship" but definitely in a different league. And there's nothing wrong with that. Gives more team the experience without sacrificing compete time teams experience.

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I'm curious about one thing. Many have (rightly) lambasted FIRST for, among other things, devaluing the championship experience.
But whenever I, or a few other people, try to argue that districts are devaluing the regional experience, the argument is largely ignored. Why is that? Are they not as similar as I think, is it because the benefits of districts are more obvious, is it because most frequent posters here always go to championships...?

You don't have to earn your way into a regional/district event.

[216Robochick288]

Originally Posted by Louis_

I might as well break my "I will always lurk on CD and never post.

First, welcome to the insanity, Im sad that this is where your first post is. Go check out the thread for quotes or the "addicted to FIRST" one

Originally Posted by Louis_

Along with this, I've had issues in my life as to whether I continue to pursue my role on my robotics team. As the drive team coach and the head of the electrical team I'd feel bad if I just left. But as this year progresses I just see more and more things I don't like coming from FIRST. I really hope the community can change what is going on, or else I'm not sure if I really want to keep doing this.

Dont give up on FIRST. Its a good program, and its heart is in the right place, even if they are going about it in a way that upsets people. The program overall and the people in it wont change based on a change to Worlds. Its an evolving program, and the first of its kind and of this scale. There are things that need to be figured out, and this is on the list of things.