Future First Championship News

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by dodar

I understand that. So then lets compare "extended season." Teams can have seniors compete one last time at post-season events. Example comparison: Panther Prowl vs 2015 World Championship. Which would you think would be the more inspiring event?

Its not a pessimistic view, its a realistic one.

Off season events by definition are not official FIRST events; which means there is no chance at an official award and that teams do not approach them in the same way. Even at the most highly esteemed IRI, quite a few teams will not compete with their regular season drive team (even if they haven't graduated, they like to identify potential new drivers), which means that as good as that event is, it is not as competitive as it could be.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Off season events by definition are not official FIRST events; which means there is no chance at an official award and that teams do not approach them in the same way. Even at the most highly esteemed IRI, quite a few teams will not compete with their regular season drive team (even if they haven't graduated, they like to identify potential new drivers), which means that as good as that event is, it is not as competitive as it could be.

Oh so you think teams are playing just for the stuff that says FIRST on them. Then you sir, have missed the boat entirely.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by dodar

Oh so you think teams are playing just for the stuff that says FIRST on them. Then you sir, have missed the boat entirely.

In 2005, I drove my team's robot at IRI for one match. It was an amazing experience, I'm glad it happened but it was not in the best interest of my team for that competition. I was terrible, we lost the match. It was an opportunity that my team could NOT afford to give me at a regional or a championship event because the stakes are much higher and the cost per match that much more.

If everyone on my team that wanted a turn was allowed one, I can only imagine there are other teams that do similarly at off season events.

I don't think my team missed the boat entirely that year, I think they got it right.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by efoote868

In 2005, I drove my team's robot at IRI for one match. It was an amazing experience, I'm glad it happened but it was not in the best interest of my team for that competition. I was terrible, we lost the match. It was an opportunity that my team could NOT afford to give me at a regional or a championship event because the stakes are much higher and the cost per match that much more.

If everyone on my team that wanted a turn was allowed one, I can only imagine there are other teams that do similarly at off season events.

I don't think my team missed the boat entirely that year, I think they got it right.

No you misunderstood my post. You think that just calling a 2nd event a "FIRST Championship" will make teams want to win it more; I believe it will not. Teams fight tooth and nail to win the current World Championship, not because it's FIRST's, but because of the prestige it holds amongst the community.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by dodar

No you misunderstood my post. You think that just calling a 2nd event a "FIRST Championship" will make teams want to win it more; I believe it will not. Teams fight tooth and nail to win the current World Championship, not because it's FIRST's, but because of the prestige it holds amongst the community.

I think the size of the event will make it prestigious even if the top 10% of the teams are not there; I don't see anyone able to organize a 400+ team event in the off-season.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by efoote868

I think the size of the event will make it prestigious even if the top 10% of the teams are not there; I don't see anyone able to organize a 400+ team event in the off-season.

....no, thats not how it works.

[MrRoboSteve]

This thread on city-data (yes, they refer to themselves on the board as CD) discusses perceptions around safety in Detroit, with input from those who live there: http://www.city-data.com/forum/detro...-safety-5.html

This site contains a pretty exhaustive list of things to do in Detroit: http://www.visitdetroit.com/things-to-do-in-detroit

[Knufire]

I grew up about 40 minutes outside of Detroit. I can say for a fact that riverwalk area of downtown (including Cobo Hall, Hart Plaza, and the Reniessiance Center is extremely safe. I've specifically worked with charitable organizations to provide food and other necessities to the homeless people in this area. These are the people that are too docile and/or weak to actually survive in the homeless shelters, which are much rougher areas. Any reasonably sized group would be safe near the river, even at night.

[Mr V]

Personally I don't think that the District > DCMP > Super Regional > CMP is a sustainable proposition. CMP would become a competition of the "rich and retired". Yes district events reduce the cost for some teams while greatly increasing it for others. Depending on where you live in relation to the district events or previous regionals and whether they are Fri-Sat or Sat-Sun events it means that your time away from work or school can stay the same or possibly go up. Traveling to DCMP can cost similar to going to a second Regional but less than half of the teams currently do so.

I think the longer term solution is a District > Regional CMP > World CMP path. My proposal would be that we still define and run the individual districts as they do now however instead of advancing the top team to a DCMP they advance to the RCMP and from there teams advance to WCMP. The cost to the teams that advance to the RCMP can go up or down vs the DCMP depending on where they live of course but overall it is more sustainable economically and from a volunteer and time away aspect. More teams get to experience a Championship event and there is still one WCMP event.

Because I do agree that experiencing a CMP type event is very beneficial I'd propose that in each district there are a number of reserved lottery spots to move on to the RCMP. If you advance on merit you aren't eligible for a lottery spot for say 3-4 years and if you advance on that lottery slot again you aren't eligible for another in say another 3-4 years. I'd propose that a RCMP would include the FLL and FTC programs like CMP currently does and have say 200 FRC teams at each of the 3-5 RCMPs. You would get more teams to a CMP experience and they wouldn't only be the ones that could afford the entry fees, travel costs and time off on a regular basis like I fear that a D > DCMP > SR > CMP system would. I'm not sure where I stand on giving lottery slots away at the RCMP to go to CMP.

[maxxman]

With the champs placed in this way teams from Michigan and Ontario especially will see the same teams at the regional and worlds.

Look at my teams situation. We are about 15 minutes away from team 4039, 25 minutes away from 1114, 45 minutes away from 3683, 865, 1241, and 2852 and no lie I can see the 2056 shop from outside my window as I type this.

So if my team will ever get the opportunity to go to worlds it will feel almost like the Waterloo or Windsor regional. We would not have the chance to meet teams from the south. It would just be the same teams that we have been seeing for the last 5 or so weeks.

So just like everyone else in this thread I will have to put in my negative vote. If there is any way to not have the dual champs happen I would love to see that