Future First Championship News

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by KeeganP

S

A 600 team champs event is great, but I feel it may be too big -- especially when a good portion of the teams going to champs this year "qualified" though the waitlist, instead of through winning (or being a finalist, etc.).

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

They won't provide Capri Suns...if they did perhaps it would fly. No its just another $5000 check. Where does that money go?... its ridiculous the costs to attend multiple events especially at future less competitive championships. Ridiculous.

[jimbo493]

I would just like to point out that I think this is one of the fastest growing CD posts to date, over 500 responses in 10 hours...

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Boltman

They won't provide Capri Suns...if they did perhaps it would fly. No just another $5000 check. Where does that money go?

I'm concerned about all the implications that this is money motivated. Who exactly are you people suggesting is being unfairly enriched by this? Cause it has to be someone.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm concerned about all the implications that this is money motivated. Who exactly are you people suggesting is being unfairly enriched by this? Cause it has to be someone.

Seriously what message does dual championships send? Unless accompanied by a significant entry fee reduction?

Makes no sense to have two locations for < 600 teams or an expansion to 1000 unless entry fee driven.

If it walks like a duck....

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Makes no sense to have two locations for < 600 teams.

The goal is to have two events of 400 teams each. (Similar sizes to the 2014 Championship)

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The goal is to have two events of 600 teams each.

How ridiculous is that? Read what you wrote. Other than money grab.

Wasn't too long ago champs was capped at 400.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The goal is to have two events of 600 teams each.

What I read was to have two events of the 2014 size or two 400 team events.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Mr V

What I read was to have two events of the 2014 size or two 400 team events.

After I posted it, I went back and read that too. Post edited.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Seriously what message does dual championships send? Unless accompanied by a significant entry fee reduction?

Makes no sense to have two locations for < 600 teams or an expansion to 1000 unless entry fee driven.

If it walks like a duck....

Right. So who are we proposing is inflating their salary and pocketing all that extra money? Unless you think they're funneling the extra money into FTC, FLL, etc. In which case why the outage?

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Unless you think they're funneling the extra money into FTC, FLL, etc.

FLL and FTC subsidize FRC (and will for the foreseeable future). FIRST's financials tell us that much.

[Fusion_Clint]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

Nailed it! I think they should use either the FTC Super Regional model or the District model.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

I'm also concerned by this attitude. Champs as the ultimate robot competition is depressing to me since to achieve this you need to:

1. Eliminate waitlists, and probably wildcards. They didn't win in so they shouldn't be there.
2. Eliminate advancing 2nd and 3rd picks. They're usually just along for the ride on the winning alliance.
3. Eliminate advancing chairman's, HoF, and EI robots. Their robot didn't get them there, so that would water down the competition.
4. Eliminate advancing RAS. Best rookie is still a rookie.
5. Eliminate advancing original and sustaining teams. Just cause you used to be good...

I mean, if we're serious about crowning the one true champion and all that.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm also concerned by this attitude. Champs as the ultimate robot competition is depressing to me since to achieve this you need to:

1. Eliminate waitlists, and probably wildcards. They didn't win in so they shouldn't be there.
2. Eliminate advancing 2nd and 3rd picks. They're usually just along for the ride on the winning alliance.
3. Eliminate advancing chairman's, HoF, and EI robots. Their robot didn't get them there, so that would water down the competition.
4. Eliminate advancing RAS. Best rookie is still a rookie.
5. Eliminate advancing original and sustaining teams. Just cause you used to be good...

I mean, if we're serious about crowning the one true champion and all that.

Do all that (in allowing those entries) and keep it in one city. It works. Two cities does not work... always a step-child competition. Is the world clamoring for 800 in champs?

[JaneYoung]

I've always thought of the Championship Event as a Championship event. It is possible to have 2 Championsip events - or more. Much of the chatter in this thread makes me think the mindset is that of a National event that wants to have the Worlds title. The bigger picture is of a much broader and wider scope; an inclusive one. Imagine a Championship Event in Israel, Great Britain, China, Mexico, Brazil... Imagine the Awards given to prestigious members and teams of the FIRST communities in these countries and others. Imagine these members and teams in 2020, 2025, 2030... Not in 2015 where we bicker about the locations of 2 host cities in the USA only.

Much of the basis of the HoF teams has been a foundation of growing FIRST and STEM initiatives in our communities, creating a far-reaching impact. This has happened and will continue to happen. To put blinders on and deny growth and a legitimate need for change that reflects this very real growth and interest, is nothing less than hypocritical.

Since when has FIRST ever accepted/maintained the status quo? Since when have teams, mentors, and our FIRST community leadership chosen to maintain the status quo? This is just the beginning, I think. And it is exciting.

Jane