Future First Championship News

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

They won't provide Capri Suns...if they did perhaps it would fly. No its just another $5000 check. Where does that money go?... its ridiculous the costs to attend multiple events especially at future less competitive championships. Ridiculous.

[pagoglia]

I am surprised at how many of the responses are opposed to change. FIRST is an evolving changing beast and there are bound to be changes. Question is was this where change was needed at this time. As a four year lead mentor I can say my team thouroughly enjoyed our Rookie All-Star trip to Championships. We'd love to go again some day but winning there is not as high on our list of things to do as it appears to be with many on this thread. More important is spreading STEM through robotics and having a good time.
A shorter, more relaxed, less competitive version of what exists now might enable some mentors to stay around longer annd some teams to feel more satisfaction. For example; a 'league' where each team can attend if they compete with the robot tbey built as of bag day. No multiple events and therefore no multiple 30 pounds of goodies that permit some to arrive at Championship with a robot that is no longer what came out of the build season. The emphysis is put on getting it right the first time.
The idea being to keep some sanity in the number of months people have to put in. There are a lot of people working as mentors whose involvement grows exponentially with each passing year; turning the mentor positions into what look like full time jobs. This translates into well mentored teams but questionable home life. Money needs to be raised for each added event along with the time commitment. For team members attending multiple events it means more missed school days. I'll stop there but I think that FIRST in general and all teams individually need to question the amount of time and energy they devote to their seasons; attempting to keep some balance of reason so we don't get burnout while trying to effect positive change in our youth.

[Fusion_Clint]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

This

In 2012 we got to championship by winning a regional, but so many teams get there by other means that it is easy for a first-time championship team to get overlooked and not taken seriously. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience, but when everybody wins, what is the significance of winning? It's starting to sound like rec league soccer...everyone sign up to bring a snack at one of the events, and when you get to championship...here's your trophy and here's your Capri Sun.

Nailed it! I think they should use either the FTC Super Regional model or the District model.

[Denise Bohnsack]

GROWING PAINS:
FIRST Programs are growing. This is wonderful. There is not a city which can handle the championship as it currently set up. All of us need to understand this. I appreciate the efforts to address the situation.

I believe many worthy teams cannot afford to attend a regional, a super regional, and finally, a championship in FRC, as it is often suggested.

It may be too late, but here are a two possible solutions to consider.

1. Have the FLL and FTC Championships at one location/city and the FRC Championship at another. This would free up space and hotel rooms.

2. Have the FLL and FTC Championships one weekend and the FRC Championship in the days and weekend following in the same city. (All groups will not all be there at once.) Lengthening the event and spreading out the use of hotel rooms and facilities.

These ideas may have already been evaluated, and certainly will have other problems associated with them, but perhaps they are worth giving additional consideration.

Thank you for trying to come up with a solution which benefits all parties and provides more students with FIRST opportunities. It is a difficult task,understandably. I am confident it will all work out eventually. Best wishes to all!!

[jimbo493]

I would just like to point out that I think this is one of the fastest growing CD posts to date, over 500 responses in 10 hours...

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Boltman

They won't provide Capri Suns...if they did perhaps it would fly. No just another $5000 check. Where does that money go?

I'm concerned about all the implications that this is money motivated. Who exactly are you people suggesting is being unfairly enriched by this? Cause it has to be someone.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm concerned about all the implications that this is money motivated. Who exactly are you people suggesting is being unfairly enriched by this? Cause it has to be someone.

Seriously what message does dual championships send? Unless accompanied by a significant entry fee reduction?

Makes no sense to have two locations for < 600 teams or an expansion to 1000 unless entry fee driven.

If it walks like a duck....

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Boltman

Makes no sense to have two locations for < 600 teams.

The goal is to have two events of 400 teams each. (Similar sizes to the 2014 Championship)

[magnets]

Wow. This is sad.

How could FIRST not predict the overwhelmingly negative response? If they had sent an email to a few teams with the idea (maybe the hall of fame teams, they're supposed to be in contact with them, right?), they'd be better prepared for the stream of disapproval and complaining.

Why was this done without any sort of public discussion? There were many heated debates on CD and in real life about the merits of district competitions, but the district model was improved as a result. The same could be true for an expanded championship model.

Is the 2015/2016 St. Louis championship format so terrible that they're dropping it before they've even tried it?

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The goal is to have two events of 600 teams each.

How ridiculous is that? Read what you wrote. Other than money grab.

Wasn't too long ago champs was capped at 400.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

if they really want to be more accessible they should do an east west format.

So think of it like this.

Have east championships for everything east of the mississippi and west championships for everything west of the mississippi. International teams could choose which one they attend.

Then have the world championships in st.louis with only 1 half of each teams from each divisional.

Its more expensive for the really good teams but they most likely have the funds to do both where as it is much cheaper for the bottom half teams.

Would this replace DCMPs in any area? i like this idea either way.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The goal is to have two events of 600 teams each.

What I read was to have two events of the 2014 size or two 400 team events.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Mr V

What I read was to have two events of the 2014 size or two 400 team events.

After I posted it, I went back and read that too. Post edited.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

How do you have leadership without winning?

Are you serious?

One method is to excel (in any aspect of life) at the cooperative aspect of what Woody likes to call coopertition.

Another thought on the subject would be to point out that in FIRST a team earns the Chairman's Award by exhibiting leadership in many areas, only one of which is doing well enough (not necessarily outstanding; but instead, just well enough) in the coopertition parts of FIRST.

Blake

[Aidan H.]

I think a small point to consider about FTC and FLL is that having them in the same place (or city) helps to "engulf" them in the incredible Champs experience. I would think (my own personal opinion) that FIRST did not like switching to the 600 team model for this year and next year because is forced FTC and FLL to other places, meaning they didn't get the same immersion they used to.
Even though recently there has been few FTC and FLL teams at Champs (compared to FRC), they are still giant programs (though not as big as FRC) that are growing at very fast rates. FIRST really doesn't want (my personal opinion) to forget about them.
CD is almost entirely current FRC participants (some FTC or dual) and it seems most of the opinions about this change reflect an FRC-centric mindset. I would think (my opinion) that FIRST wants FTC and FLL to have more significance at Champs, and 2 Champs probably doesn't mean too much to an FTC or FLL team (but to an FRC team...).

I agree with many that this decision is ripping the "C" out of FRC, demolishing what most of the inspiration for FRC has been built on for the past 25 or so years (pursuit of being the grand winner). It started with a competition, and everyone loves a competition. Add in some robotics, community outreach aspects, and GP awards, and you have inspiration FOR more than just winning, you are inspiring pursuit of science and technology (I would say a much more noble cause than a sport's pursuit of just winning). The problem is that with two Champs, the basic concept of a competition has been eliminated. What are we really playing for?
I have noticed from my time in FIRST that many people are hooked into the competition, because of the nature of it: it's a competition! But then people realize that there is much more: inspiration, mentorship, ect. But after you have found the "more", do you still need the competition? I would say that question is what polarizes the debate.
I would say many people still need the competition; it's what drives them to succeed, keeps you working in the shop, keeps mentors coming back each day. You realize there is more to it, and FIRST has done a great job making sure everyone realizes those aspects, but at the end of the day, this is the FIRST Robotics Competition, and that's what many people love about it.

Sidenote: Sorry, I was thinking about the FTC/FLL aspect, and wanted to add that point in, and then meandered into adding my $0.02.