Point Value Changes for Champs

[JesseK]

Per the Game Manual, the Blue Box under 3.1.2.4 states

As competition at the FIRST Championship is typically different from that during rest of the competition season, FIRST may alter each scoring value at the FIRST Championship.

At Champs, will we have hit a threshold in level of play where point values should be re-adjusted in order to remove the 'insta-win' autonomous Canburglaring, and if so what point values should be adjusted?

For example, the GDC could theoretically alter Autonomous values, which are at some of their lowest point values relative to actual gameplay scores (%-wise) that I can remember outside of 2009. For further incentives, the GDC could mandate that only the containers in the pre-staged alliance zones count towards the container set. However, this would simply lead to a Teleop Canburglar race, which then means we're still back to an autonomous Canburglar race.

What other point adjustments could the GDC make, and how would it impact play?

[Taylor]

They could re-evaluate the use of golden totes after autonomous and after their usefulness for coop score has been achieved.

[Drakxii]

It would be really nice to up the auto scoring. It could lessen the can burglar race and make so that we don't get a bunch of championship matches with no auto mode score, but... I doubt they will.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

It would be really nice to up the auto scoring. It could lessen the can burglar race and make so that we don't get a bunch of championship matches with no auto mode score, but... I doubt they will.

Would increasing the value of auto really stop the can burglar race? You still need the cans or you cap your score pretty quickly.

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Would increasing the value of auto really stop the can burglar race? You still need the cans or you cap your score pretty quickly.

In Elims? Probably not, since you will have a bots doing auto and bots doing can grabbing on the same team. In Quals maybe depends on how high they make the auto scoring.

[Nemo]

How about this:

Gray totes: 3 pts
Green cans: 3 pts per level

• Same total value for full capped stacks
• Cans still very important / doesn't invalidate canburglar teams
• 0-4 can split is still hopeless, but 1-3 split might be interesting sometimes

[FrankJ]

Seeing that the GDC didn't make a provision in the rules for adjusting point values for championships, they really cannot. The teams that built a robot for the current rule set would have an legitimate beef.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Seeing that the GDC didn't make a provision in the rules for adjusting point values for championships, they really cannot. The teams that built a robot for the current rule set would have an legitimate beef.

Does it not have that caveat this year? I thought the quote in the first post of this thread was from this year's manual.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Seeing that the GDC didn't make a provision in the rules for adjusting point values for championships, they really cannot. The teams that built a robot for the current rule set would have an legitimate beef.

Except they did, like Jesse said, it's in the blue box under 3.1.2.4

[Loose Screw]

I think it would be nice to either reduce the points that RCs have (4-->2 per level), or increase the amount totes give (2-->3 per tote).

I would like to see alliances that can score all 8 6-stacks (5HP, 3 landfill) compete with those that steal cans in auto.

Alliance 1: 8 6-stacks, 3 with RCs: 8*6*2+4*6*3= 168

Alliance 2: 5 6-stacks, all with RCs: 5*6*2+4*6*5= 180

A very exciting match, yes, but it was over in the first few seconds in auto. Not counting litter or auto (about the same if both alliances do it), the alliance that scored everything it could lost to an alliance that still has 2 RCs and 18 totes.

Now with reduced RC value,

Alliance 1: 8 6-stacks, 3 with RCs: 8*6*2+2*6*3= 132

Alliance 2: 5 6-stacks, all with RCs: 5*6*2+2*6*5= 120

This way, the alliance that scored 3 more sets of totes is rewarded with the win. Alliance 2 would have to work harder to win (just one more stack of 3totes+RC to tie). However, this scoring method would lower scores, messing with OPR and such.

Increasing tote worth,

Alliance 1: 8 6-stacks, 3 with RCs: 8*6*3+4*6*3= 216

Alliance 2: 5 6-stacks, all with RCs: 5*6*3+4*6*5= 210

In this case, Alliance 1 would have a very close victory, but still be rewarded with scoring everything they can. If alliance 2 steps up their game, they could easily win.

My point is that I don't believe that 1 container should add 2 stacks worth of points. This system will decide matches based on who can get the containers in auto first. Last second stacks will have no meaning without containers, and all excitement will be lost after the first 5 seconds of the match.

[Sunshine]

If you increase the autonomous tote stack points from 20 to 60, you in essence devalue the burglary. If you increase the value of autonomous container sets from staging zones from 8 points (way too low IMHO) to 40 points and keep same point value if taken from steps, you in essence devalue the burglary. One or both scoring changes work.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Except they did, like Jesse said, it's in the blue box under 3.1.2.4

OOPS I should have read the manual better.

[Matt_Boehm_329]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

If you increase the autonomous tote stack points from 20 to 60, you in essence devalue the burglary. If you increase the value of autonomous container sets from staging zones from 8 points (way too low IMHO) to 40 points and keep same point value if taken from steps, you in essence devalue the burglary. One or both scoring changes work.

Wouldn't this greatly overpower the teams that are able to do the current 3 tote auto? How does this devalue the burglary. I would think in playoffs each team would be able to run a 60 point auto either making the auto points a wash or making an alliance with can burglars even more powerful if the opposing one didn't have that same auto.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by Matt_Boehm_329

Wouldn't this greatly overpower the teams that are able to do the current 3 tote auto? How does this devalue the burglary. I would think in playoffs each team would be able to run a 60 point auto either making the auto points a wash or making an alliance with can burglars even more powerful if the opposing one didn't have that same auto.

Both alliances can get auto, both alliances can't get 4 cans of the step.

[Matt_Boehm_329]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Both alliances can get auto, both alliances can't get 4 cans of the step.

Exactly, so changing auto points wouldn't help