[FRC Blog] We're Listening

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Squillo

Frankly, many the teams that inspired our team the most were not "the best of the best" - they were just other teams that had maybe done more with resources similar to ours, that had really, really nice members, that had come up with a unique solution to a particular problem, etc.

I changed my post to most. I still believe from talking to the teams (at least from Canada) that it was competing with so many teams that are "elite" they were motivated to do more and expand their program.

[michaelwm]

Our team is in it's second rookie year - we have gotten to the semi-finals at every regional but never further, and just last regional, we were the closest to going to the world championship we have ever been. After we lost at our last regional, I was personally devastated. So close, yet we didn't make it. The point is that our team is a middle-lower class team. Going to the world championship is really my dream.

And yet, of the people on our team who have heard this announcement, we all dislike it. Out of the ~100 teams we competed with this year, only 6 made it to the world championship. We desire to go to world's because we want to know we are in the top 6% of FRC teams in the world.

But top 25%? That's an entirely different story. Being 1 in 4 doesn't say "you are a top team". Being 1 in 16 does.

It's not just the "elite" teams, it's teams like ours that want a real championship, not another regional.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

The main problem I see with the swap idea is if Everyone decides, say, Houston is the premier Champs event and wants to come here. If there's only Detroit teams wanting to head to Houston, it's not likely to fix things. You could probably remedy that by randomizing the swapping, so there's less incentive for everyone to try to swap to one regional, since you don't know if you'll actually wind up with all the star teams.

I had a similar thought process. You could let teams throw their hat into the "swap" pool and then randomly swap some percentage of those teams. Gives teams a chance to see the other league for a change.

[Botsup]

As much as I appreciate you Frank, this does not cut it.

Having a town hall type discussion with input from the FIRST community is what should have happened BEFORE decisions were made. NOW you want our help to make your horrible decision better? Not pleased at all.

And in case you think this is "just" the CD crowd talking, I was at one of the three District Championships all day today and EVERYONE I spoke with was universally against this change and felt disrespected for not being given a chance to weigh in on this prior to a decision. Most of those I spoke with do not even know CD exists.

[Squillo]

Originally Posted by michaelwm

Our team is in it's second rookie year - we have gotten to the semi-finals at every regional but never further, and just last regional, we were the closest to going to the world championship we have ever been. After we lost at our last regional, I was personally devastated. So close, yet we didn't make it. The point is that our team is a middle-lower class team. Going to the world championship is really my dream.

And yet, of the people on our team who have heard this announcement, we all dislike it. Out of the ~100 teams we competed with this year, only 6 made it to the world championship. We desire to go to world's because we want to know we are in the top 6% of FRC teams in the world.

But top 25%? That's an entirely different story. Being 1 in 4 doesn't say "you are a top team". Being 1 in 16 does.

It's not just the "elite" teams, it's teams like ours that want a real championship, not another regional.

Everyone can have their own goals. I'm sure for many teams, WINNING the championship is their goal. Your team can still have "being in the top 6%" as a goal; how about placing in the top 10 in your championship division? Or top 8? Or being in the top 6% in OPR? Or winning an engineering award (or all 5)? None of this has anything to do with going to Championship (unless, maybe, you get there as the captain of a winning alliance, or maybe the first pick).

How would you feel if you got to Championship as a second pick? I don't think that puts you in the top 6% of teams - I would doubt many would say that the first alliance's 2nd pick is "above" the second alliance captain, regardless of which alliance wins the regional. Ditto for the 3rd captain, if all 6 on the top two alliances go. I don't think that just because 6 teams go to champs, it means they are the "top 6%" in terms of best robot/engineering (or even driving).

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Fielding S.

Yup.

Also, imagine this:
Detroit = waitlist teams
Houston = Regional/District qualifiers, Chairman's winners, EI, etc.

i feel many will not like this. I personally dont have an opinion, but someone else might.

Originally Posted by ScourgeDragon

The one thing I keep wondering is: Why does a team have to compete at Championships to be inspired at Championships?

I think most people feel that is where they were Most inspired. Personally, i (and our team) have never been to a Championship, but being at the District Championship for the first time really inspired our team, and we have a much better grasp on a lot of things that we didn't have last year.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by MikLast

I think most people feel that is where they were Most inspired. Personally, i (and our team) have never been to a Championship, but being at the District Championship for the first time really inspired our team, and we have a much better grasp on a lot of things that we didn't have last year.

This is exactly how it should be. The harder you work for something, the more inspiring it is when you reach it.

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by michaelwm

Our team is in it's second rookie year - we have gotten to the semi-finals at every regional but never further, and just last regional, we were the closest to going to the world championship we have ever been. After we lost at our last regional, I was personally devastated. So close, yet we didn't make it. The point is that our team is a middle-lower class team. Going to the world championship is really my dream.

And yet, of the people on our team who have heard this announcement, we all dislike it.

Exactly. What makes the championship experience inspiring is the diversity and the massive, electric feeling that builds around it.
In 2013, my team got our first regional win ever playing defense for the two best cyclers at the Wisconsin regional. We couldn't do anything for our first few quals, and still got picked. In other words, we got lucky, but it was still the start of something really special. By our next event, we were shooting more accurately, and into the high goal, and placed second at the event, ahead of one of our alliance partners from Wisconsin, who we then picked. When we went to champs, i was a freshman who had no idea what to expect. What I found was a city in a building- a global community that understood and sought inspiration from one another. I scouted with a Canadian team, shared tools with an isreali team, drooled over a robot made completely of laser cut wood; I learned so much from all kinds of teams from all over the world. Yet, despite the many backgrounds of these teams, they all shared one common trait: they were all a vital part of the unique energy of the global community that is FRC championships.
The next year, we were an alliance captain at both of our events for the first time in team history, going to finals at Midwest before being taken out by two of the best shooters in the world. This year, we kept pushing, and we got our first ever chairman's win and our first ever 1st seed, and are ranked among the top teams in the world for OPR.
It's amazing what one small taste of championships can do. Even if you aren't the best at your regional, know that if you really, really dedicate yourself and seek out your own inspiration, success will come to you.
The inspiration champs instills in students is not from simply being there. Your hard work and perseverance, the diversity, and the energy of this global community are what makes champs such an inspiring experience. I think it'd be a mistake for FIRST to forget this.

[Dunngeon]

Originally Posted by Navid Shafa

As one of these teams, in fact 31st out of 31 PNW slots (before waitlist candidates), I can say I agree. While we had a good enough robot and enough practice to win a district, we weren't as competitive as the top tier at the DCMP.

Our goal as a team, was to make it to world's in this transition year. It feels amazing and the kids are proud, because they know we worked hard to earn it. We want to be competitive at Saint Louis, we want to do our best to contribute in Qualification Matches, but most importantly we want to build a team.

I want my students to strive to be better, to learn more and want more. Being able to show them robots and teams that continue to inspire me allows me to do that. Without the risk of failure or more importantly a lofty goal to reach, how can I expect them to be Inspired to grow.

Teams don't want a banner or a championship slot handed to them, they want to earn it. Winning a match in the finals is not just a victory in the moment, it's being rewarded for all the hard work we put in during the season and up until then at the event.

You want to inspire? Give people all the examples they can get, teach them, and reward them the right amount for the time and effort they put in. That's inspiring.

I couldn't agree more, your team earned that spot at Champs and I'm super excited that you guys were able to qualify. This is why I like having more slots to send teams to champs from a DCMP event.

What I don't particularly like is sending more teams from the waitlist, while it could (and has) inspire(d) teams, they also have very little vested into it since it's random. If anything, institute Super Regionals in non-district regions so that more teams can be in 4513's (MikLast's) position.

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Dmentor

While there are no perfect solutions, here are my thoughts…

Call the first of the two “championships” the “FIRST Festival” and qualify as many teams as possible (bigger is better). While still a competition, this event would be structured as a great big party with focus on celebration of achievement, changing culture and inspiration. Hall of Fame teams would have automatic invite, championship chairman’s award would be awarded here, plenty of great teams from across the world will make it loud. Bring a film crew and capture the energy, team stories, action, etc. Provide a suitable award for the winners of the competition like the next year’s fees paid, etc.

Call the second of the two “championships” the “FIRST World Championships” and only qualify the best 240 teams from around the world (there are plenty of statisticians on here that can provide the ranking criteria from year to year). Instead of casting it as a big party, fill it will pomp and circumstance. Have 4 divisions of 60 teams; keep it smaller to provide as many qualification matches as possible. Given the smaller size and selection criteria this should be an extremely high performance event so broadcast the World Championships on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN3, ESPNUNameIt… Use the massaged footage from the “FIRST Festival” to fill in the natural pauses in competition. And we can anoint the “Champions of the World”.

If FIRST Festival is around 600 teams and FIRST Word Championships is around 240, you still end up with 840 with plenty of inspiration and meaningful competition.

They do this (to an extent) in FLL. There is a US Open Championship and the World Festival (Championship event). I absolutely love your idea. This combined with better and more inspiring DCMPs will help this tremendously.

I still feel like we could have supported 600-800 FRC teams in Atlanta plus FLL and FTC. We didn't even come close to utilizing half of the space available in Atlanta. Put FTC in the Philips Arena (pits in one of the other exhibit buildings) and FLL in another exhibit building.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

They do this (to an extent) in FLL. There is a US Open Championship and the World Festival (Championship event). I absolutely love your idea. This combined with better and more inspiring DCMPs will help this tremendously.

I still feel like we could have supported 600-800 FRC teams in Atlanta plus FLL and FTC. We didn't even come close to utilizing half of the space available in Atlanta. Put FTC in the Philips Arena (pits in one of the other exhibit buildings) and FLL in another exhibit building.

Just pointing out that the 800 team + J/FLL + FTC issue might not be so much about venue space as it is about things like hotels.

This is one of the reasons I like the FRC Champs, FTC Champs split: it could conceivably keep the sheer number of people in each city around what FIRST and those metros were planning for.

[RoboMom]

For many years I have volunteered to give conference sessions at the Championship with topics ranging from how to build community alliances to engaging parents to recruiting corporate volunteers. A couple of years ago there was a mentor who attended one of these sessions who shared with me that he obtained funding from his school system to attend the Championship BECAUSE of the conferences. Although these sessions have definitely gotten more polished over the years and expanded I continue to feel that "beefing" up the conferences held in conjunction with the Championship to be a destination in themselves has been a missed opportunity.

[AmoryG]

Originally Posted by audietron

The elite Super teams are going to continue to not like this, along with most teams that have already been to championship. The teams that have not been to championship before may not care whether there is one or two places to go. They just are as excited either way.

The championship event isn't just about the participants because the spectators matter as well. Although only a small fraction of the community can participate anyone can spectate. It won't benefit anyone if the viewing experience declines. Even if a team could attend championships every 4 years, attending the event will be a less special experience compared to previous years for 1 year, and for the other 3 the viewing experience will have declined as well. I don't think it's a good trade off.

[ghostmachine360]

Originally Posted by ehoyla

I hope they do the same with the chairman's winners between the two as well.

To do what, compete? What purpose does that serve?

[matthewdenny]

Everybody in this thread is "not being able to see all the teams when I go to champs isn't as inspiring"

And I'm over here thinking I'd be happy if autonomous worked right for once.