Responsible disclosure practices

[Greg McKaskle]

I'm not certain whether the original question was more about securing your device from external entry, or about teams looking for an advantage. But either way, the link given by Joe would work. It is also a good place to send safety concerns.

Just to comment a bit on the topics...

in any way shape or form

Not really true. Locking a door doesn't prevent someone from breaking in, but it does deter. Putting a bomb shelter door on a house with windows doesn't make it safe. It just makes it really hard to enter and leave the house.

There are many ways to cheat in FRC, but there are also many deterrents. I don't think cheating takes place in FRC very often, and I don't think it would be as easy as presented.

I ask that you not speculate or scheme online because information that you discover but are above using as a cheat may be just what someone else is looking for. That is why the link exists. Do your part to show how a community should deal with security.

A few more thoughts...
Robots that gain weight, grow a new limb, or move when they shouldn't can be reinspected.
Students who impale an opposing robot with a pool noodle may be checked for performance enhancing compounds.
Robots that don't obey the laws of physics will be checked for alien technology and magic.

And yes, we think about it.
Greg McKaskle

[MrRoboSteve]

Originally Posted by Greg McKaskle

Robots that don't obey the laws of physics will be checked for alien technology and magic.

You can't see the "magic check" on the RI checklist, because (obviously) it's not visible to team members and mentors, only to robot inspectors.

Getting an edge through cheating can be tempting, and it's easy to only think about the upside -- the glory of winning. Those feeling tempted should also imagine the incredible shame that would be brought upon their friends and teammates should their actions be discovered. Think about an article on Frank's Blog describing the situation in detail, and the 200 post thread that would ensue on CD. Think about the likelihood that your name would be associated with the cheating. Picture what it would be like to tell your parents about it. Imagine explaining to employers your involvement, or failing a background check for your new job due to "trustworthiness" issues.

[virtuald]

Originally Posted by Greg McKaskle

Not really true. Locking a door doesn't prevent someone from breaking in, but it does deter. Putting a bomb shelter door on a house with windows doesn't make it safe. It just makes it really hard to enter and leave the house.

Exactly. When I said the control system, I was specifically referring to the DS -> Robot communications not being authenticated/encrypted. The FMS/etc is a separate matter that I have zero knowledge of. Given that the game is judged by humans watching every move a robot does, it doesn't make sense to bother with encryption/authentication at that point (see the reference to Raymond's airtight hatchway that MrRoboSteve mentioned). Anyone performing an attack as I mentioned previously would almost certainly be noticed.

If I had thought there was a risk of someone cheating using the method I mentioned, then I would have sent an email to FIRST long ago, and wouldn't have mentioned it in a public forum. But the risk is minimal, the gain is minimal except in very subtle circumstances, and the downside from it is too great as MrRoboSteve mentions.

I'm not convinced that speculating in a public forum on the ways one could cheat is necessarily a bad thing either. The more ways that are publicly known, the more they will be watched for, and the harder it will be to actually do any of them -- which is a good thing.

I suspect if people intentionally cheat in FIRST, they almost certainly do it via some mechanical cheating mechanism or violation of materials rules. I stand by my assertion that cheating via software that only affects your robot in a non-mechanical way is mostly useless. [Edit: with the exception of methods that provide human input to autonomous mode, but even then, mostly useless in this year's game]

[MrRoboSteve]

Originally Posted by virtuald

[Edit: with the exception of methods that provide human input to autonomous mode, but even then, mostly useless in this year's game]

Even this is tough. There are a bunch of people with a good view of you if you try to do this, including the referee who is standing at the end of the white line.

[FrankJ]

One problem with enabling your robot early is you don't know when the game is going to start. If you have a reliable way of predict that, then you are slumming & probably should be doing something other than FRC.

Everything is over managed switches so should be difficult to directly interfere with another robot. Although certain combinations of robots play havoc with the FMS system. Keep in mind network traffic is monitored. Consequences for being found out is likely to be severe for the team & individual.

[virtuald]

Originally Posted by MrRoboSteve

Even this is tough. There are a bunch of people with a good view of you if you try to do this, including the referee who is standing at the end of the white line.

Agreed. And given there aren't any dynamic elements this year, there's not significant benefit either.