2015 Champs Predictions

[orangelight]

I expect all consistent and fast canburglars to be gone before second pick begins

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by orangelight

I expect all consistent and fast canburglars to be gone before second pick begins

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don't scout well as a rule

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don;t scout well as a rule

Plus the fact that you have to be able to convert those cans to stacks, and it's entirely possible some of the fastest canburglars are not very good stackers.

[Pretzel]

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

[Gweiss96]

Originally Posted by Pretzel

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

That seems really difficult. I think you would need to do one or the other, but have an alliance partner that can do the other task.

[CaityDawh]

Originally Posted by Pretzel

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by CaityDawh

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

Or tether an alliance partner to their ramp.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by CaityDawh

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

It's not like they really need the ramp to clear the landfill... And if they want they can tether it to another alliance partner who is running the auto (given weight allows).

[Cash4587]

Originally Posted by CaityDawh

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

Or tether their ramp to a team say, somebody like us or 1296 who has weight left over and needs to be in that zone anyway who can also make lots of stacks. Who knows how it will play out though. We are working on our autonomous sequence the next few days To see if we can do a thing or two with those gold ones with those extra 15 seconds.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Plus the fact that you have to be able to convert those cans to stacks, and it's entirely possible some of the fastest canburglars are not very good stackers.

THIS. Just winning the can race is not enough to win, you have to use the cans. Because the elims all the way through the divisions and Einstein are average based and round robin, you are still going to have to put up big points as an alliance to advance. If you win all 4 cans but only put up 3 -6 stacks you are not going to advance. In the Einstein quarter finals you only see 2 of 8 teams, so a fast can grabber alliance who can't stack could easily get knocked off by the other side of the bracket where the cans split 2-2 and both teams throw up 5 stacks of 6.

I actually think that in the quarter finals and semi finals of both sub-divisions and Einstein you might see some alliances agreeing to let the cans go 2-2 to better their chances at making it to the final dance.

Which asks the question, how many alliances do you all think will have the capacity to put up more than 5 - 6 stacks? I think very few, especially at the sub division level, and even in the quarterfinals on Einstein it will be an issue for most.

[FIMAlumni]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

I actually think that in the quarter finals and semi finals of both sub-divisions and Einstein you might see some alliances agreeing to let the cans go 2-2 to better their chances at making it to the final dance.

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by FIMAlumni

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

It will be less of an agreement, and more of an alliance deciding to take the cans they know they can get with their faster can theft device that happens to be attached to their best stacking robot, because they don't want to risk said stacking robot. Spending half the match or more tied up in some can battle disaster can kill your alliance much more easily than not having 7 cans to use.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by FIMAlumni

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

It all comes down to not being able to guarantee that you are faster. Fast can grabbers are a relative game, if .25 seconds is the mean time that we are using for reference and every alliance has 2 robots that can do it that fast, how often will you KNOW that you are going to get all 4.

Assuming your team can use all the cans look at the point potentials

step cans         Points (all 42 point stacks)
0	              126
1	              168
2	              210
3	              252
4	              294

I would rather bet on getting 210 pts in a match carrying me forward than risk 126 and know I will be out.

Now this is only in the situation where winning the can race is in doubt. If you know you will win, you never agree to this deal, as it lowers your scoring potential for no reason.

Originally Posted by Woolly

It will be less of an agreement, and more of an alliance deciding to take the cans they know they can get with their faster can theft device that happens to be attached to their best stacking robot, because they don't want to risk said stacking robot. Spending half the match or more tied up in some can battle disaster can kill your alliance much more easily than not having 7 cans to use.

This brings up another point. I say you always put your 3rd robot (cheese caked or organic) with whips up against the best scorer (with whips) on the other alliance. In the chance that they do get caught up the impact could be huge regardless of who gets the cans.

[cjl2625]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

And I guarantee 1114 has a fast canburglar by now.
So there's that.

http://www.simbotics.org/files/photo...ssex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

Assuming your team can use all the cans look at the point potentials

step cans         Points (all 42 point stacks)
0	              126
1	              168
2	              210
3	              252
4	              294

0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by cjl2625

http://www.simbotics.org/files/photo...ssex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.



0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

Missed... looked more like "got beat"