900's Championship Cheesecaking Chronicles

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

They certainly were on the alliance and, yes, I do hold the belief that you win and lose as an alliance. However, should that not not also include playing as an alliance? Yes, had the harpoons been deployed, 900 would have played a role. (Whether or not that really would have been team 900 is a different question.) I also struggle with your team's role in eliminations. You burgled cans (with 148's cheesecake, yes?) and then rolled into a corner - when you were in matches. You spent most (?) half (?) off the field while 1114 and 148 did everything.

There was nothing illegal about this. I just could not imagine picking a "partner" and telling them that it's better for the alliance to play short-handed than to put them on the field. Even with partners that more frequently cost alliances points than gain points, we find ways to involve them in the game.

I struggle with you level of disrespect. You can try all you want to insult our alliance partners and take away from their accomplishments, but it's not going to work.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I struggle with you level of disrespect. You can try all you want to insult our alliance partners and take away from their accomplishments, but it's not going to work.

I do not disrespect your alliance partners at all. I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I do not disrespect your alliance partners at all. I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

Claiming that we don't deserve to say we're an Einstein team is pretty disrespectful.

Yes, "we".
148, 1114, 1923, 900.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Claiming that we don't deserve to say we're an Einstein team is pretty disrespectful.

Yes, "we".
148, 1114, 1923, 900.

I didn't say that. I simply said I struggled with your role.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I do not disrespect your alliance partners at all. I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

No, your statement precisely disrespected them, whether it was your intent or not. Frankly I'm tired of seeing both 1923 and 900 have to deal with these slights. There are students on these teams who read these forums and now see people questioning the validity of their position on an alliance. It's both rude and unfair.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Karthik

No, your statement precisely disrespected them, whether it was your intent or not. Frankly I'm tired of seeing both 1923 and 900 have to deal with these slights. There are students on these teams who read these forums and now see people questioning the validity of their position on an alliance. It's both rude and unfair.

Very well. I apologize for being/showing/expressing disrespect. It was certainly neither intended nor thought.

Is it okay to disagree or struggle with a chosen game strategy on personal principle?

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

Is it okay to disagree or struggle with a chosen game strategy on personal principle?

Absolutely. But claiming a team doesn't deserve what they have because they didn't use your preferred strategy is what wasn't okay.

Appreciate you clarifying your intent.

[Sam Slade]

First off, I want to preference my post by congratulating ALL 4 of the championship winners. It was a great strategy and well within the rules. I have no issues with the strategy.

I understand and support finding ways for any team to contribute more to an alliance. At the Southfield District in Michigan this year, a team took a cardboard trash bin from the event and taped it to their robot for the elimination matches. During the match, they loaded their alliance's remaining noodles in it and drove to the landfill to score points. No one cried "Foul" there, nor should they have. Teams then expanded to sharing can burglars and ramps, again with no one crying "Foul" (that I can remember anyways).

The strategy that this alliance came up with was brilliant. It sounds like it was an amazing experience for all involved. They didn't break any rules, no one was bullied into doing anything, they simply came up with a strategy to try to win.

I am, however, a little concerned with what "cheesecaking" may become. Are we going to continue down this path to the point at which a team simply builds three robots and slaps their partners' numbers on them for the match?Again, I am not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. I am simply wondering what the future holds.

Again congratulations to ALL 4 of the championship winners. To insinuate that a team does not deserve the championship win as part of the alliance just because they didn't play in a match is absurd. Does a backup quarterback "not deserve" a ring when their team wins a Superbowl? Everyone has their role to fill. That's what makes you a team/alliance.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Sam Slade

To insinuate that a team does not deserve the championship win as part of the alliance just because they didn't play in a match is absurd. Does a backup quarterback "not deserve" a ring when their team wins a Superbowl? Everyone has their role to fill. That's what makes you a team/alliance.

I think that's a great way to look at it.

[meg]

Originally Posted by Sam Slade

I am, however, a little concerned with what "cheesecaking" may become. Are we going to continue down this path to the point at which a team simply builds three robots and slaps their partners' numbers on them for the match?Again, I am not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. I am simply wondering what the future holds.

I can't speak for others, but personally I feel that a lot of the "cheasecaking" had to do with the game this year. We knew on day 1 of build season that the matches would (99% of the time) be decided within the first few seconds by who could grab the cans first.

That being said, we also knew that there was absolutely no way that "can burgler" without the ability to then place the cans on stacks would have let us win the regionals we attend. We made the choice to build the robot we would need to (hopefully) succeed at regionals.

That robot was definitely not up to the task at Championships. Not only was it mechanically flakey (we had to replace the output shafts of the motors nearly every match which involved removing the entire arm. Just ask AndyMark how much we abused their products this year!), but we knew it wasn't fast enough.

Even before knowing which field we were going to be on, we had discussed leaving the arm at home and building something new to put on the robot for Championships. It was eventually decided that we should keep the arm, we wanted to see the autonomous with vision we had worked so hard on.

Overall, I think that there are two main benefits that came out of this.
First, our students were inspired, they got to work with some other teams very closely to accomplish a very very impressive engineering feat.
Second, we got to meet and work with 1114, 148 and 1923. We hope that we will have a lasting relationship with them for years to come. As we continue to grow as a team, having these contacts we can ask for advice and as a guide for how we can help improve our team will be invaluable. I can't wait to see them at worlds next year! Also, meeting Libby was awesome! We are super proud to be part of Team Unither and we hope to grow those bonds and be able to work more closely with them in the future!

Sorry for the long ramble-y post

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

Then fault the GDC and FIRST for allowing it, not the teams operating within the rules.

Haters gonna hate, Cheesers gonna cake.

I love the harpoons. Hopefully we will see them in action at IRI

[George Nishimura]

I admit that I really wanted to see the harpoons in action on the field, fully working. I think it's an amazing idea.

From an engineering perspective, I think it's impressive if a team came out from a six week build season with it, let alone a 7ish hour time period. Well done to all that contributed, I remember walking past it in the pits and being amazed!

From an educational perspective, I think it must be incredibly inspiring to work closely alongside teams such as 1114 and 148.

However, from a sporting/competition perspective, I think it's a dangerous precedent that should be discouraged in some way.

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

Then fault the GDC and FIRST for allowing it, not the teams operating within the rules.

They tried to ban it. It just happens to be an incredibly difficult thing to outlaw and had to leave it as a loophole.