900's Championship Cheesecaking Chronicles

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Libby K

They were on our alliance. Even if just for that one day, we're a family. We win and lose as a unit.

Indeed.

[Kevin Leonard]

First of all, 900 is one of my favorite team in FRC. We had a qualification match with them in Archimedes 2014, and they were fantastic to work with. We tried some crazy ideas in our practice match with them before it that most teams wouldn't have been willing to try (full-court catching strategy. It would have been sick if it worked.
900 consistently thinks outside the box and has an overwhelming desire to win at the highest levels, which I admire about them so much.

From what I've heard from everyone involved, it was an incredibly inspiring experience for students on that whole Alliance, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it from that perspective.

I can understand why an opponent might be upset at this, but I don't blame any of the teams involved, I do blame the game design.

Everyone knew from then beginning of the season that finals on Einstein was going to be decided by can races- that was an obvious game flaw, and we knew how an arms race would end- we saw it happen in 2011, where teams with more resources were able to create faster minibots and won a world championship because of it.

Congrats to Team 900 on doing what it takes to reach the Einstein semifinals, as well as their alliance partners and supporters.

I'll be using 900 as an example of doing what it takes to win for anyone who will listen for the next year or so, until they reach Einstein again.

Bold prediction: 900 reaches Einstein again in 2016. Calling it right now.

Good luck, and I hope to compete with you next year.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

Bold prediction: 900 reaches Einstein again in 2016. Calling it right now.

You are a brave man. I hope it comes true but only time will tell. I can tell you that next year will be just like this year. My students, fellow mentors, and myself will be working towards the same goal we had this year.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Libby K

I didn't check (was a little busy Saturday)
They were on our alliance. Even if just for that one day, we're a family. We win and lose as a unit.

They certainly were on the alliance and, yes, I do hold the belief that you win and lose as an alliance. However, should that not not also include playing as an alliance? Yes, had the harpoons been deployed, 900 would have played a role. (Whether or not that really would have been team 900 is a different question.) I also struggle with your team's role in eliminations. You burgled cans (with 148's cheesecake, yes?) and then rolled into a corner - when you were in matches. You spent most (?) half (?) off the field while 1114 and 148 did everything.

There was nothing illegal about this. I just could not imagine picking a "partner" and telling them that it's better for the alliance to play short-handed than to put them on the field. Even with partners that more frequently cost alliances points than gain points, we find ways to involve them in the game.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

* It also begs the question, with all the emphasis and prestige of winning, does 900 now get to claim they reached Einstein? I suppose. It just seems strange to say so as the team finished in 75th place out of 76 teams and didn't enter into a single playoff match.

They absolutely reached Einstein. To me it seems strange that anyone would even question that.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

They certainly were on the alliance and, yes, I do hold the belief that you win and lose as an alliance. However, should that not not also include playing as an alliance? Yes, had the harpoons been deployed, 900 would have played a role. (Whether or not that really would have been team 900 is a different question.) I also struggle with your team's role in eliminations. You burgled cans (with 148's cheesecake, yes?) and then rolled into a corner - when you were in matches. You spent most (?) half (?) off the field while 1114 and 148 did everything.

There was nothing illegal about this. I just could not imagine picking a "partner" and telling them that it's better for the alliance to play short-handed than to put them on the field. Even with partners that more frequently cost alliances points than gain points, we find ways to involve them in the game.

I struggle with you level of disrespect. You can try all you want to insult our alliance partners and take away from their accomplishments, but it's not going to work.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Karthik

They absolutely reached Einstein. To me it seems strange that anyone would even question that.

Something about sticks, stones, and blue banners...

[Abhishek R]

Excuse me if I missed it somewhere, but why weren't the harpoons ever deployed? It seems to me like SF6 on Einstein would be the last ditch match as Newton and Curie were both fighting for that second spot.

[JohnM]

Since you guys have one harpoon left, do you guys happen to have the CAD files for it? If so would you guys be willing to share them at all? They would be pretty interesting to look at. Anywise, thanks.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I also struggle with your team's role in eliminations. You burgled cans (with 148's cheesecake, yes?) and then rolled into a corner - when you were in matches. You spent most (?) half (?) off the field while 1114 and 148 did everything.

There was nothing illegal about this. I just could not imagine picking a "partner" and telling them that it's better for the alliance to play short-handed than to put them on the field. Even with partners that more frequently cost alliances points than gain points, we find ways to involve them in the game.

We didn't play in the Curie QFs because we were still getting through inspection. Please see our own writeup about our experience here and others' responses in the Cheesecake Runaway thread. This will help explain our role in the match a little better, perhaps.

Sorry you struggled with it. My kids loved every moment of it.

They wore their medals to school today with pride, and your issue with it is not my problem.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I struggle with you level of disrespect. You can try all you want to insult our alliance partners and take away from their accomplishments, but it's not going to work.

I do not disrespect your alliance partners at all. I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

* It also begs the question, with all the emphasis and prestige of winning, does 900 now get to claim they reached Einstein? I suppose. It just seems strange to say so as the team finished in 75th place out of 76 teams and didn't enter into a single playoff match.

As someone who was the 4th member of a championship alliance last year, never played in a single match, and made it to Einstein its an opinion that we found out is pretty common in FRC. It is an unfortunate result of the four member alliance structure that some robots just might not play and still receive a banner or medal.

Most people choose not to say it in a public forum so I actually commend you for saying it in public.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I do not disrespect your alliance partners at all. I simply struggle with the chosen game strategy.

Claiming that we don't deserve to say we're an Einstein team is pretty disrespectful.

Yes, "we".
148, 1114, 1923, 900.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Sorry you struggled with it. My kids loved every moment of it.

They wore their medals to school today with pride, and your issue with it is not my problem.

I'm glad your kids enjoyed it and took pride in it. I'm just saying that it is a game strategy that I could not have supported.

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Claiming that we don't deserve to say we're an Einstein team is pretty disrespectful.

Yes, "we".
148, 1114, 1923, 900.

I didn't say that. I simply said I struggled with your role.