Robots vs. Humans

[AlexC]

Originally Posted by z_beeblebrox

We've considered this one extensively:

2015 - Robots win. Humans lose canburglar battles and can't carry many big, heavy game pieces at once.

2014 - Robots win. Humans are good at catching but have fragile ankles.

2013 - Humans win (maybe). Humans have no problem with the pyramid, but can't throw frisbees as fast or accurately as good robots.

2012 - Humans win. Humans can balance and shoot baskets no problem.

2011 - Robots win. Humans are short and lack minibots.

2010 - Humans win. Humans can control a soccer ball.

2009 - Robots win. Humans can't store many game pieces or easily pull a trailer.

2008 - Humans win. A human can run around the track and throw the trackball quickly.

I don't know enough about older games to evaluate human performance.

At first I would have said humans for 2014. Humans would break many bones though so I have to agree.

[Dragonking]

2015 would actually be pretty close. It shouldn't be that difficult for humans to score every tote on the field during the match so they would still be able to put up massive scores even if robots got all 4 cans every match.

20 + 8 + 4 = 32 auto points should be really easy to do for humans
3 cans + 18 totes +3 noodles = 3 x 42 = 126 points also relatively easy to do for humans
52 remaining totes = 104 points humans should be able to consistently get all the totes on the field scored including upside down and totes on the step
a good noodle thrower should be able to score 5 of the seven remaining noodles = 20 points
Total = 282 points scored by humans consistently which so far would beat most robot alliances if multiple matches where played

If someone is willing to sacrifice their body and is insanely quick a person may be able to win a can which would then pretty much guarantee victory for humans.

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by AlexC

At first I would have said humans for 2014. Humans would break many bones though so I have to agree.

If it's full contact I think robots may take it every year. No way in heck I'm getting in front of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRNXECDS2o

[artK]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

2013: Humans would be able to basically dunk 4 discs into the 2-pt goal easily, and some would be able to do the same for the 3-pt goal. Humans could easily climb the pyramid and dump colored discs, as well as block the robot's full-court shooters with ease.

That sounds painful. Really painful. I would not want to be the defensive man on that alliance.

Originally Posted by themccannman

If it's full contact I think robots may take it every year. No way in heck I'm getting in front of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRNXECDS2o

Didn't need to click the link to guess what this was.

Back to the original topic, one of my questions for a version with this game: Can people have (unpowered) ramps? Because some people felt it was a bit cheap to use a ramp tethered to a robot to help them score, would humans have the same freedom?

And could humans join #teamtether?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by artK

Back to the original topic, one of my questions for a version with this game: Can people have (unpowered) ramps? Because some people felt it was a bit cheap to use a ramp tethered to a robot to help them score, would humans have the same freedom?

I would, personally, say no on the ramp. See, most robots don't have 2x 4-DoF arms with opposable thumbs on the multi-jointed manipulators, with built-in 3D vision sensing to know where to place objects. A human can grab a tote and slap it onto a stack or throw it to another human, who can catch it, with minimal difficulty. FRC robots? Not so much.

[FrankJ]

Since the rules where written with no consideration for human vs robot, this is more of an interesting thought exercise rather than a meaningful comparison.

Autonomous would be trivial for the humans. Tote stack & recycle containers in auto zone with extra seconds to start stacking. Humans would be able to climb on the land fill to grab the containers on the step. Once they had a container, the tug of war would always go to the human so the robot would have to be able to pull it to their side before the human got to it. Noodling the container would be trivial for the humans. (throw the noodle on the field & let the human pick it up.) Humans could completely empty the landfill.

Other games would be more difficult because of issues with robot human contact.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Autonomous would be trivial for the humans. Humans would be able to climb on the land fill to grab the containers. Once they had a container, the tug of war would always go to the human so the robot would have to be able to pull it to their side before the human got to it.

Given the speed of some of those canburglars, I'm pretty sure the robots would win that match. The average human reaction time is about 0.2 seconds. By the time you heard the starting sound and lunged forward over the landfill to grab a can, it would be gone.

The margin is close enough that, assuming it was safe, I would love to see this competition happen.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Given the speed of some of those canburglars, I'm pretty sure the robots would win that match. The average human reaction time is about 0.2 seconds. By the time you heard the starting sound and lunged forward over the landfill to grab a can, it would be gone.

The margin is close enough that, assuming it was safe, I would love to see this competition happen.

I agree that the only way to prove this is to try it. But for the robots to win they would have to to get all 4 of them. A 2/2 tie or even a 3/1 split would be a human advantage. If any part of the can is on the step, the Human could recover them. Also no reason that all the noodles on the human side not to be in the land fill.

[carpedav000]

1992- Humans would be unholy.

[pmangels17]

Originally Posted by carpedav000

1992- Humans would be unholy.

Unless they got hungry....

[AmoryG]

2011 it depends... does each human get a hypothetical minihuman for pole climbing?

2013 definitely not with a few athletic humans can can dunk and each hang from the top of the pyramid.

2015 is tricky because although the best canburglars could beat any human, I don't think they can pull away fast enough for a human to get their arms around the can. If it comes down to a wrestling match a human would tear a robot apart. The only robot I know I would lose to however would be 1114, because I would be too afraid of getting impaled by their harpoons to even try.

Anyway, if defense is allowed I think humans who are strong enough could bully robots and prevent them from scoring any points.

Also, if robots are allowed bumpers that means humans are allowed safety gear?

[planetbrilliant]

Would they have to make the weight limit? I remember we were messing around one day and a couple freshmen took turns on the scale and we joked about turning a small one in as our robot.

[abigailthefox]

Depends on whether or not you consider height and weight restrictions. A small human tends to be proportionately more fragile than a small robot. Also, excepting 2015, most robots had fairly short heights as well. In order to find a <120 pound person to play most of the games, chances are that they would likely lose to a robot who has had all 120 pounds of their frame perfectly designed to fulfill game objectives (er, designed and cheesecaked), whereas a 120 pound human has a lot of "extra" that isn't too helpful in a competition. Also, no one seems to think about the fact that robots never get tired. Have you ever tried to outrun your robot? I have (thanks to the programmers not disabling it before it reached poor innocent me holding the tether :/). Humans (that are in decent shape) can out-sprint a robot in the short term, but 2.5 minutes of sprinting around to achieve game objective can get tiring, especially with this years 8 pound totes to carry around. You might not think your robot is exactly careening around and going 0-60 out of the human player station, but human legs would still probably give out before your CIM motors will. And in the long term, humans can't just get a new battery every match. Overall, humans could probably put up a good fight in a lot of the games due to good reflexes and spatial skills, but a well built robot with an experienced drive team would likely win at most games.