IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?

[Ekcrbe]

I've seen a lot of calls to change playoffs back to best-of-3 series, but I would propose a different solution that I think still corrects all the flaws of the current system.

• Divide the 8 alliances into two pools of 4. This can be in a predetermined fashion (e.g. 1, 4, 5, 8 and 2, 3, 6, 7) or semi-random (e.g. the sum of the alliance numbers must be between 16 and 20 for both pools). I wouldn't say it should be totally random because that could be really rough if the top 4 alliances are put together.
• Play a round-robin series in each pool. An alliance advances after 2 wins and is eliminated after 2 losses, so two of the four alliances will advance. If two alliances begin 2-0, they move on and the pool ends. If one alliance begins 2-0, it moves on, the 0-2 alliance is eliminated, and the two 1-1 alliances face off (possibly for the second time) to determine who advances. If all four begin 1-1, each plays its third match against the alliance it has not yet played.
• This advances four alliances to the SF, where they repeat the procedure.
• The final two alliances play a best-of-3 series

I like the aspect of Recycle Rush's playoffs that each alliance gets to play more than one opponent, but taking the average of just 2 matches in the QF is very fluky. I don't like using averages in eliminations much at all, so I would go back to wins and losses.

[Billfred]

A few thoughts (didn't read the thread):

1) Nuking the step would be bold, but IRI could pull it off. The entire landfill zone is fair game, no crossing the white line on the other side, crank out a little dummy platform for the recycling containers to sit on so we don't have to re-re-re-enginner them.
2) During qualification rounds (and only qualification rounds), step containers get a loop of red or blue tape on them. Make it the ones on the drivers' right. During the autonomous period, robots can only go after their alliance's containers. Come teleop, all step containers are fair game. (And come playoffs? Man the harpoons!)
3) I'm really okay with this year's format for playoffs. If you must do W/L before finals, I'd suggest double-elimination so there's at least a little mystery to the autonomous period.
4) Yellow totes score the same as gray totes on the platform. Goodness knows teams will need them all.
5) Alliances may request one or both lines of the face-down totes be flipped right-side up before the reset signal is given from the last match, but drive teams have to help during the setup time. (This affects the landfill packing which may affect some canburglars, so it's an option play.)

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by Billfred

5) Alliances may request one or both lines of the face-down totes be flipped right-side up before the reset signal is given from the last match, but drive teams have to help during the setup time. (This affects the landfill packing which may affect some canburglars, so it's an option play.)

There's a really good idea right there. I like it.
+1 to this.

[NHoffmann]

Sorry if this has already been said, but here goes:

Remove the step. In the last minute, allow robots to cross the center. Any stacks you knock over gain your team half the points that that stack was worth (rounded up), but any stacks completed during that time are worth double. Stacks completed before this time will count as permanently scored, but stacks built during this time and then knocked over will not count. Stolen full stacks scored for the alliance that took them will receive the doubled point value for the team doing the stealing. Recycling containers stolen from the top of still standing stacks would have a point value assigned to each steal, and even more bonus points assigned to whichever stack they are placed on top of. Basically, a 1-minute race to steal as many resources as you can from the other team. Balancing defense, offense, precision, and time management.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

3. Go to 2 v 2!

#3 is the most exciting for me because this reduces the need for all of the cans and makes that race less influential without significantly changing the game. It also makes an alliance really weigh the trade-offs between auton and cans.

This is an interesting thought, but I prefer Zondag's suggestions to make more cans and totes available. If the game piece limits go away, then the incentive is to get the 3rd robot on the alliance to be as productive as possible, which I find to be more exciting. Let's see 10 stacks on each side of the field.

[Steven Donow]

Make can races an autonomous bonus. Whichever alliance gets the most cans ends up with a 20 pt bonus (or something...or just X points per can).

Then balance out however many cans by giving them to the HP station (ie. Red alliance steals 3 cans, blue steals 1, Blue gets two cans in the HP station, Red gets none), extend the HP area to an area similar to last year allowing them to place cans onto the field.

Only issue is this assumes a can race where all four cans are taken happens in every match/what to do about contested cans that are still being fought over in teleop.

[Shifter]

Add an end game:

Yellow totes that do not start on the field may only be introduced through the chute in the last 20 seconds of the match.

At the end of the match, a stack containing one or more of these end-game yellow totes scores double (ie. one six-high stack with RC and noodle where one tote is an end-game yellow scores 2 x 42 = 84 points). If multiple stacks contain an end-game yellow tote then only the stack worth the most amount of points is doubled in value.

Perhaps the same applies for the co-op stack during qual's - would love to see teams screaming through forests of stacks in a race to co-op before the buzzer sounds.

[waialua359]

*I posted this in the IRI poll thread also.

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

[CTbiker105]

Originally Posted by waialua359

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

It'd be interesting to see which teams could line themselves up the fastest to prepare for that. Although you may also see teams line up prior to the match and wait there until the last 30 seconds are approaching (but that would limit other alliance member's accessibility to the landfill totes).

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Man the harpoons!)

LOL! I sense a new battle cry coming on...

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by waialua359

*I posted this in the IRI poll thread also.

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

With that rule, competitive alliances would need to create some uncapped tote stacks and then cap them in the end game. Most robots can't do that, because with the real rules it isn't necessary to cap existing stacks. This change would significantly hose a lot of teams.

Also, referees would have to judge whether teams jumped the gun on the can race. I find that less desirable than letting the FCS ensure that the teams all start the race at the same time.

[indubitably]

Originally Posted by waialua359

*I posted this in the IRI poll thread also.

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

I certainly wish this was part of the original rules, but this change wouldn't affect all strategies the same so I doubt it would be an IRI change.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by indubitably

I certainly wish this was part of the original rules, but this change wouldn't affect all strategies the same so I doubt it would be an IRI change.

Me too! This would have been so much better. An end game sort of.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by waialua359

*I posted this in the IRI poll thread also.

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

Maybe I have not thought long enough. So far all I come up with is, pity the Head Referee who has to decide whether that robot won the race, or jumped the gun. Could be really tough to call when opposing robots try for the same can, possibly using different techniques; e.g., side claw vs. top hook. Harpoons fired from crossbows would be especially challenging.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Maybe I have not thought long enough. So far all I come up with is, pity the Head Referee who has to decide whether that robot won the race, or jumped the gun. Could be really tough to call when opposing robots try for the same can, possibly using different techniques; e.g., side claw vs. top hook. Harpoons fired from crossbows would be especially challenging.

Sounds like reffing minibots all over again. No thank you!