The Future of the FIRST Championship- The FIRST Stadium

[Kevin Leonard]

I was recently thinking about the problems facing the future of FRC for both the community and for FIRST HQ.
-FIRST HQ wants to have 25% of FRC teams attend a championship level event, which currently means 800 teams attending championship.
-FIRST HQ wants FRC, FTC, and FLL at the same championship event.
-The FIRST Community wants to bring the top teams together for one event, because that's what makes the event so inspiring.
-The FIRST Community wants to crown a true championship alliance.

Whether or not you want or do not want any of the above, those are goals for a FIRST Championship by members of the community (and I know I missed some, but those are the big ones I thought of).

The problem, as discussed in many other threads, is that there is no location that could currently handle an 800-team FRC championship event, as well as the FTC and FLL Championship events/festivals.

Let's talk crazy- and I mean very crazy.

What if, with the help of many of FIRST's sponsors, friends, and benefactors, a new stadium was built with FIRST in mind for a championship event to be held in the post-championsplit era.

This stadium could be built with an exact plan in mind of how to organize and execute a championship event at that location.

To get a basic starting figure, the Edward Jones Dome, built today, would require $433 Million Dollars to build (according to Wikipedia) To account for inflation, as well as other things I haven't thought of, let's call it an even 500 million dollars.

That's obviously an absurd amount of money, even for Will.I.Am or Dean Kamen. But with the support from the right benefactor- say almost anyone on this list- it could easily become a reality.

This dome could be used at any other time of the year for other events, especially science and technology related events- like the championship events for other robotics competitions, and be used for anything FIRST wants.
It's possible that these events could help offset the costs of maintaining the stadium.

There's a number of other obvious problems as well, such as where to locate this stadium such that it satisfies a number of other criteria, like hotel space and a nearby airport hub, but those are all workable with the right consideration, planning, and benefactor involved.

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of feedback along the lines of "You're crazy", and you'd probably be right. But something like this could not only solve FIRST's championship problems, it could also serve to legitimize FIRST as a sport with it's own stadium and supporters and sponsors.

Thoughts?

[dodar]

This has been floated around for years as being a solution to city hopping after contracts expire. I always thought it could work, but it is literally the FIRST pipe dream.

[Koko Ed]

It would cost too much money to purchase and to maintain.

[Bob Steele]

This is a pretty cool idea but don't forget that it is not JUST the initial cost of building. There would be taxes and maintenance costs for a facility that size that would easily outstrip any additional money brought in by "other" events.
I would love to think that somehow "powers that be" could come together to build a stadium for the "Sport of the Mind" but in the end ... it is all about money.

I hope this happens some day... but in order for it to happen our competition would have to be something that appeals to the media and to advertisers that would benefit from having their products in front of viewers.

That certainly makes for a great dream....

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It would cost too much money to purchase and to maintain.

But he explained that. You could run the venue with other events to cover costs.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of feedback along the lines of "You're crazy", and you'd probably be right.
...

Thoughts?

If something like this were undertaken, I'd propose it would be built with the future in mind (I'm thinking 2030s).
To have space to host 25% of the FRC population that far in the future, there probably needs to be space to support 1000-1500, not just 800.

Figure the stars align and everything gets moving tomorrow, I don't see the completion until well after 2020, and building for anything less than a decade of use seems very short sighted and a misallocation of funds.
Also think about what you'd give up to have that venue. $500 million would go a very long way towards growing the program (instead what about $100k per team for 5000 new teams?)

[XaulZan11]

A more likely option (still extremely unlikely) would be for FIRST contact the stadium designers in LA to see if the stadium they are already building could accommodate FIRST's needs.

[MrTechCenter]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

A more likely option (still extremely unlikely) would be for FIRST contact the stadium designers in LA to see if the stadium they are already building could accommodate FIRST's needs.

I highly doubt it. The reason why there's no good venues for a championship event on the West Coast is that the weather is usually nice enough for a traditional, open-air stadium. FIRST needs a roof.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by efoote868

If something like this were undertaken, I'd propose it would be built with the future in mind (I'm thinking 2030s).
To have space to host 25% of the FRC population that far in the future, there probably needs to be space to support 1000-1500, not just 800.

Figure the stars align and everything gets moving tomorrow, I don't see the completion until well after 2020, and building for anything less than a decade of use seems very short sighted and a misallocation of funds.
Also think about what you'd give up to have that venue. $500 million would go a very long way towards growing the program (instead what about $100k per team for 5000 new teams?)

On the point about the team growth by the 2030's, by then hopefully we'd have transferred to a super-regional model and the Championship could stay at a stagnant 800-1000 teams.

However you're completely right about using that money elsewhere to support team growth. That would be a far better use of funds than a new stadium. The difference, I think, is that the stadium is a thing FIRST could point to as a use for their funds when talking to a potential sponsor of the endeavor, as well as a place for FIRST's champions, Hall of Famers, and FIRST's ideals to be immortalized.

You're definitely right. I spent too much time thinking whether FIRST could build their own stadium rather than whether they should.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by dodar

But he explained that. You could run the venue with other events to cover costs.

You really think people are gonna just give us that much money to build a stadium? It's hard enough attracting sponsors to simply run the program. This is significantly a whole lot more than that and then you have to maintain the property and pay taxes on it. Unless Bill Gates takes a shine to the program and decides he wants to grant us a billion dollars we are probably not getting enough money to create a stadium.

[Lil' Lavery]

No. I would loathe to see FIRST squander money on such a foolish expenditure. If they were to convince some multi-billionaire to commit a significant portion of their net worth (ha!) to FIRST, I would much rather have them invest it in any number of applications that would enhance the average teams' experience, ranging from the kit of parts to helping struggling regional committees to passing it along as registration cost savings. Beyond the initial cost, prove to me you could fund the upkeep cost by renting it out to other events. Just because you say you can doesn't mean that you actually can. Show me a business model that will sustain this specialized space.

But cost is only the first hurdle. Find me a suitable location. It needs to be near an excessive number of hotels to support the demand for team housing, especially if you want to support 25% of the team population. If it's a single venue it needs to be near a major hub airport. It needs a public transit system to move teams from the airport to hotels and hotels to the venue. It needs enough amenities in the area to feed and entertain teams. Basically, it needs to be in a major city. Now, find me a large plot of unused or available land in a major city near amenities and public transportation. Good luck. Stadium proposals for major league sports already often struggle to do this, and they have the backing of city governments and eminent domain laws. Try convincing the public to support an eminent domain seizure for a venue used for a program that most of them have never heard of and that won't provide year-round jobs to people. That's political suicide for whatever policy maker advances the idea.

This is not just a pipe dream, it's a poor target to pursue.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

No. I would loathe to see FIRST squander money on such a foolish expenditure. If they were to convince some multi-billionaire to commit a significant portion of their net worth (ha!) to FIRST, I would much rather have them invest it in any number of applications that would enhance the average teams' experience, ranging from the kit of parts to helping struggling regional committees to passing it along as registration cost savings. Beyond the initial cost, prove to me you could fund the upkeep cost by renting it out to other events. Just because you say you can doesn't mean that you actually can. Show me a business model that will sustain this specialized space.

But cost is only the first hurdle. Find me a suitable location. It needs to be near an excessive number of hotels to support the demand for team housing, especially if you want to support 25% of the team population. If it's a single venue it needs to be near a major hub airport. It needs a public transit system to move teams from the airport to hotels and hotels to the venue. It needs enough amenities in the area to feed and entertain teams. Basically, it needs to be in a major city. Now, find me a large plot of unused or available land in a major city near amenities and public transportation. Good luck. Stadium proposals for major league sports already often struggle to do this, and they have the backing of city governments and eminent domain laws. Try convincing the public to support an eminent domain seizure for a venue used for a program that most of them have never heard of and that won't provide year-round jobs to people. That's political suicide for whatever policy maker advances the idea.

This is not just a pipe dream, it's a poor target to pursue.

You're 100% correct. Poorly thought out idea.
I kind of want to just delete this thread now.

[Bob Steele]

Don't kick yourself about this. It is a wonderful dream.

Put aside all of the every day fiscal issues and better uses of the money...

Just think of a huge complex dedicated to STEM education....and inspiring kids to be more than they thought they can be. A facility dedicated to showing kids that they can do ANYTHING they want with their lives.

To get the recognition by society and by government that THIS is what we should spend money on... (including the support of all the teams and students in their individual situations) That is the dream of FIRST.

Communities come together all the time and put up GIANT facilities to support their local sports teams... be they college or professional. They MAKE everyone pay for it.... good for the economy.... etc etc... they inspire kids to play sports.... but unfortunately unless you are of a specific body type or ability...you won't make any money doing it...

Their is nothing wrong with dreaming about a day when this could happen to what many of us have dedicated huge portions of our lives to.

OK maybe the nations aren't ready... first we have to build teams.... and educate.... maybe it will never come....but having the dream is important.

Thank you for proposing it.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

You're 100% correct. Poorly thought out idea.
I kind of want to just delete this thread now.

Don't sweat it, Kevin.
When I went to Wegmans Henrietta last week coming back from St. Louis I saw that the Dome Arena was still unoccupied and I would love to be able to purchase exclusively to use for the Rah Cha Cha Ruckus but unless I win the lottery that aint gonna happen.

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

No. I would loathe to see FIRST squander money on such a foolish expenditure. If they were to convince some multi-billionaire to commit a significant portion of their net worth (ha!) to FIRST, I would much rather have them invest it in any number of applications that would enhance the average teams' experience, ranging from the kit of parts to helping struggling regional committees to passing it along as registration cost savings. Beyond the initial cost, prove to me you could fund the upkeep cost by renting it out to other events. Just because you say you can doesn't mean that you actually can. Show me a business model that will sustain this specialized space.

But cost is only the first hurdle. Find me a suitable location. It needs to be near an excessive number of hotels to support the demand for team housing, especially if you want to support 25% of the team population. If it's a single venue it needs to be near a major hub airport. It needs a public transit system to move teams from the airport to hotels and hotels to the venue. It needs enough amenities in the area to feed and entertain teams. Basically, it needs to be in a major city. Now, find me a large plot of unused or available land in a major city near amenities and public transportation. Good luck. Stadium proposals for major league sports already often struggle to do this, and they have the backing of city governments and eminent domain laws. Try convincing the public to support an eminent domain seizure for a venue used for a program that most of them have never heard of and that won't provide year-round jobs to people. That's political suicide for whatever policy maker advances the idea.

This is not just a pipe dream, it's a poor target to pursue.

JUST MOVE BACK TO ATLANTA!!!! That venue was so perfect, and there was tons of room for expansion!

To contradict myself, though, I think it is nice to move around every couple years. As much as I would love to see us move back to Atlanta and that brand new stadium, I think it would also be nice to not stay in the same place for 6 years. If we can move on a 3-year basis, it would be cool, keeping the championship at 600 teams max (super-regional or DCMP model will help keep it down). In a couple years, we will know how to run the championship in Houston and Detroit, in addition to Atlanta and St. Louis. Dallas and Orlando weren't really viable to begin with, so we will scratch that for now. So now we have run successful events in all of these cities, and from what I hear, FIRST Was also looking at either Salt Lake City or Denver, but the dates couldn't work out. Last year, they were looking really really hard at Indianapolis. So there are several cities we know we can have a successful event in, so let's rotate between those. None of the current students in FRC have seen a championship outside of St. Louis. We can broaden that perspective.

Seriously though, you hit the nail right on the head.