Concerns

[David66]

For about an hour now I have been reading posts from the AZ regional...to my dismay a great many of them voice concerns about "fixing matches" and ruining the spirit of FIRST. There has also been mention of this happening (although more obscurely, and less frequesntly) at annapolis. Is it happening at every regional? If so is FIRST planning to let it continue through nationals or are they going to do something about it? I am also worried because if this happened at AZ, which is a 37 robot regional, what is going to happen at one of the largest (67 robots) regionals (Great Lakes) this weekend? I know that this regional has several high quality teams that believe in FIRST (ie Teams 47, 71, 65, 67, 68, just to name a few). What do those of you attending this regional think? I think we should all come to an agreement, before the first match begins, not to do it. Let me know what you think!


*Views expressed above are the views of one individual, and are not necessarily the views held by Team 66 as a whole.*

[Koci]

I agree that something should be done about it, and I believe that the petitions provided by us and team 68 at the AZ regional were effective. It should be made clear to every team before the competition begins, however, that most teams do not want to tolerate it.

Make sure all of the teams understands the implications of what this collusion incurs.

[Ben Mitchell]

Mind explaining yourselves a bit more?

[Koci]

Check out the "Fixing" matches thread...it explains it in great detail, and I explained my position fairly explicitly there.

[Amanda Morrison]

To be honest, a lot of teams don't see what is wrong with coming to a compromise. That really depends on the person or the team. One of the great things about FIRST is that it can be whatever you make of it...and I don't see a reason for that to change. There a lot of things that might affect your standings at a regional - agreements between opposing alliances, bad referee calls, random robot parts breaking, etc. That's part of the fun. Getting past all of that and still winning, or getting past all of that and knowing that you did the right thing, is what a team should aim for. It's like a Disney movie. There's always a bad guy in the way, but the good guys always come out on top - win or lose.

The teams that you listed at the Great Lakes Regional are mostly teams that have been involved with FIRST for an extended amount of time. They know the meaning of 'gracious professionalism' inside and out, and I don't think any of them would agree to a gameplan if it didn't fall within the standards that FIRST upholds.

[David66]

Ya, thats why I named them, they are teams that i know (or at least hope i know) would never be involved in fixing matches because they have been involved in first so long

[Koci]

Lets put this into a different context. Suppose two NFL football teams knows that they will make the playoffs if they each tie in their final game against each other. Is it right for the two teams to discuss, and decide that they will play the game, and predetermine that it ends in a tie? First, this is against the bylaws of the NFL. Second, (in my opinion) this is completely unethical, and unfair to all of the teams who played fairly. The game should be played, and the team that wins should be allowed to go to the playoffs. If the game happens to end in a tie without any form of collusion, then it would be fair.

This fixing of matches is unfair to all the teams who spent time building a robot that plays the game correctly. The teams that have the best robots, the best strategy, and the best driving ability are no longer the teams that win.

Not only this, but it is not fun to watch a game that is fixed. There is no element of surprise, or anything to attract interest.

Good luck to all of those teams out there who play the game to the best of their ability.

[Alex1072]

The NFL does not give you twice the opossing team's score if you win. This rule encourages cooperation between opposing teams.

[Arrowsmith]

I didn't see or hear of any match fixing during the Buckeye Regional. Then again, I wasn't looking for it.

Carpe Budweisium= Seize the Beer.

[Clanat]

I agree with all of you about the "fixing" that is occuring. It is totally against the spirit of FIRST and Gracious Professionalism.

There are laws against price fixing in the real world, and I think it is totally unacceptable in FIRST, even if it is an agreement to not knock down boxes.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on that, and I hope that in future regionals, and at Houston, that teams who get an offer to "fix" a match would let officials know immediately.

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally posted by Alex1072
The NFL does not give you twice the opossing team's score if you win. This rule encourages cooperation between opposing teams.

It might encourage interaction between teams, but that doesn't mean that FIRST is encouraging plans made to help each other into the top eight.

Of course, this is debatable. But the elimination matches are there to encourage kids to think about strategy and competition while working on their engineering skills (i.e. the robot). The robots that usually win regionals, invitations, and nationals are the teams that are very hard to beat, and that have a good strategy and good design going for them...not the teams that helped each other along the way.

You shouldn't need to sign a contract saying, "hey, if you don't cheat the system for points, neither will I." I think that goes with the reason that FIRST even exists.

[David66]

Carpe Budweisium= Seize the Beer.

try again, carpe cerevisi=seize the beer....but back to the post....how many teams would actually be willing to sign an agreement on thursday afternoon at Great Lakes to help deter this fixing? Also, are there any teams at other regionals this week that would be willing to help curve this? Leave your name and team number (for GL) and ill be sure to come see you thursday morning

[goldalex]

I think that the fixing that these people are trying to make go down is fully and completly against what first or any other sport itself is about. I can see why teams would want to win first is a competition and the goal of a competition is in the end to win. Yet still though to win, you should win fair and square without the fixing which in my opinion is infact cheating. After reading about this i discussed it with other members of my team and they all agree with me on this topic.

[Alex1072]

I don't believe this is "cheating" the system. I would agree that it is an unintentional part of the game, but I think it is a valid strategy. The only reason I'll opt against agreeing not to wreck stacks, is that there seams to be a general concensus that it is unfair. I do not agree with this, but I will go along with it. (I do believe it is unfair to make agreements like this when other teams are purposefully not doing it.)

I think this only serves to make the games more interesting. There is nothing stoping the teams with the better robots from applying this as well. The way I saw the game played out at the Sacramento regional, the bins played an almost negligible role in the outcome of the game. All of them were shoved into the gray zones, and matches were decided by who had more robots on the HDPE. The score in our QF match was: 51 - 6. With the other team having both robots on the HDPE. I don't think that makes for an interesting game. Agreeing not to destroy stacks encourages a higher scoring game that is imo equally competitive.

[Rook]

Fixing matches is a load of @#$%!

Teams that use this practice are admitting defeat.