Windows 10

[Ben Wolsieffer]

Originally Posted by stinglikeabee

It would not make sense for NI to have to run support for additional operating systems. Focusing on one basic common operating software (Windows) helps reduce software issues by eliminating the need to spread resources and cross-compile. This (FRC) isn't a commercial product and doesn't have the same requirements or an income stream that would lend itself to such a large cost increase. Adding one full time engineer to develop and maintain a separate branch of the driver station could cost NI $150-250k depending on what the fully-burdened cost of that employee is.

I think the only way it would work effectively is if the driver station could only run on Linux. It would be a huge pain for the FTAs to add another large variable (operating system) into the debugging process, not to mention the cost of maintaining the separate build, like you mentioned.

On another note, though, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard for NI to make the driver station work on Linux, because (I'm pretty sure, I haven't had much experience with it) LabView can be compiled for Linux without many/any changes.

[FlamingSpork]

Originally Posted by stinglikeabee

The cost of the operating system also isn't really a factor in the overall scheme of things.

The reason we used the Technical Preview was because we couldn't easily obtain Windows 7 without paying Microsoft.

Originally Posted by yash101

Linux has very robust networking capabilities, so that would mean less connection drops on the field.

We actually had some issues with networking on our (Windows 10) driver laptop.

[MrRoboSteve]

Robotics teams shouldn't be paying for Windows licenses.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/corpo...are-donations/

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by stinglikeabee

Windows as an operating system isn't really a factor in connection issues on the field. Most connection issues are caused by robot electrical issues and improperly configured driver stations.

On the other hand, my experience is that Windows is the single biggest factor in problems switching from on-field networking to in-pit networking. There are probably things that the Driver Station can do to make it work better, but they would basically be workarounds for inconsistent and undesired Windows behavior.

Originally Posted by lopsided98

On another note, though, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard for NI to make the driver station work on Linux, because (I'm pretty sure, I haven't had much experience with it) LabView can be compiled for Linux without many/any changes.

I think it's the specifics of the USB drivers that would make a Linux version of the Driver Station harder to implement than one might assume.

[feverittm]

Originally Posted by MrRoboSteve

Robotics teams shouldn't be paying for Windows licenses.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/corpo...are-donations/

However, if you look at the eligibility for this program. Schools as specifically NOT included (they have different terms under their Volume pricing information for schools).

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by FlamingSpork

The reason we used the Technical Preview was because we couldn't easily obtain Windows 7 without paying Microsoft.

You're going to have to pay for that Windows 10 license eventually as well.

An OEM system builder license with full media is pretty cheap, almost certainly much cheaper than any hardware you're putting it on. http://smile.amazon.com/Windows-8-1-...dp/B00F3ZN2W0/

If that's too expensive, I'd suggest you use the provided classmate.

[protoserge]

Originally Posted by feverittm

However, if you look at the eligibility for this program. Schools as specifically NOT included (they have different terms under their Volume pricing information for schools).

This doesn't exclude all FRC teams. Many operate with 501(c)(3) status independent of a school system.

[MrRoboSteve]

Alternatives:

Many robotics teams have 501c3 nonprofit booster clubs. That org can receive the free software. It is exactly the same approach that Autodesk and Dassault use to provide their software to teams. There are many other benefits of having a 501c3, aside from free software. More info at http://thinktank.wpi.edu/article/105

Alternately, you could buy licenses under the school's enterprise agreement for much cheaper than the retail price.

Many schools have programs that provide inexpensive licenses to employees/students.

Finally, if you know someone who works for Microsoft, if you politely ask they might buy you licenses from the company store and donate them.

DareDad, there are many paths for consumers to upgrade to free win10. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about has details.

[FlamingSpork]

We went with the Technical Preview because we needed Windows quickly and couldn't wait for the school IT department. If we had circumvented them and used the school's volume license, they would detect it and torture us.

We were using other laptops before we obtained this one, but we kept running out of RAM when compiling.

[yash101]

How much RAM is optimal for programming in Java for FRC in Windows 10 Tech Preview? I might put it on my old netbook which I don't use anymore! However, that laptop's too slow for even smooth Ubuntu performance. The book has 2 GiB of RAM so I don't know if that'll work. It's the bottom of the line for Windows.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by DareDad

You're going to have to pay for that Windows 10 license eventually as well.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about

[FlamingSpork]

Originally Posted by yash101

How much RAM is optimal for programming in Java for FRC in Windows 10 Tech Preview?

I really don't know, as our team uses C++. Sorry!

Originally Posted by yash101

However, that laptop's too slow for even smooth Ubuntu performance. The book has 2 GiB of RAM so I don't know if that'll work. It's the bottom of the line for Windows.

Our laptop was (allegedly) preloaded with Windows 7. Microsoft thinks that Windows 8 and 10 have similar system requirements, so you might be better off with a light-weight Linux distro.

[MrRoboSteve]

2G should be adequate on Windows for a robot program in C++ or Java. I'd spend $50 on a SSD if you don't have one, as it makes a big difference on build times.

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by FlamingSpork

This year, my team (3003) used the Windows 10 Technical Preview for our main driving/programming laptop. We (happily) had few issues, other than some networking glitches.

Are any other teams using/planning on using Windows 10?
I know that many teams probably won't upgrade because Windows 7 is very stable and there is no reason to upgrade.

[Developer for Windows 10 here]
Windows 7 is obviously the most stable windows version out there as of now, and works fine for us. As a developer, we have actually been able to eliminate more bugs than in the past versions of windows at this stage, so it should be stable. We're aiming to release in early August, so there will be another 5 months of updates we can release before kickoff so we might be able to reliably use Windows 10 in the next season. Hope that helps.

[asid61]

Personally I've found that Windows 8.1 takes up massive amounts of memory (I have 8gb) such that SolidWorks will throw a "low memory" error after a few hours of running, even if nothing else is open. It might just be my computer, but I'm probably going to try Windows 10 later to see if it helps.