I redesigned Recycle Rush. Introducing Speed Stackk

Plain and simple - I hate Recycle Rush. A lot of people do. It's a bad game and I see no value in replaying it during the offseason. That's why I decided to try and reinvent it. There are tons of offseasons out there and playing a better game is always a goal, so why not make a new game that uses the same mechanics as the old one but improve them to make it playable?

The field does most of the talking on how Speed Stack is to be played. It's similar to 2015 but the differences are clear. If anyone wants to use this field they can go ahead and use their own rules or make some up. I've put some suggested rule changes below. The field CAD files can be found here. I could only get them as a Solidworks file, but if someone can make native files for other CAD programs I'd be extremely grateful. I don't have field drawings, but the positioning of where things go is simple enough that anyone can figure it out from the CAD. This new field reuses all pieces from the 2015 game field - nothing is new.

Suggested rule changes:
1) Optional bumpers do not count towards weight
2) 2015 size extension rules stay the same however tethers are not mandatory
3) Robots can be placed anywhere during autonomous except for their opponent's auto zone (area between alliance wall and grey tape)
4) Robots may not enter auto zones during autonomous (only exit)
5) The alliance scoring zones (outlined by tape from each alliance color) are safe zones
6) Robots may not contact the scoring platform or totes/recycling bins within their opponent's safe zone
7) Yellow autonomous totes are worth 5 points on a scoring platform alone and 10 points if they fully support a stack above them
8) Each alliance gets 36 totes and two recycling containers behind their alliance wall (totes go through tote chute, recycling bins may be carefully entered through the side of the field)
9) Yes tote chute. No chute door.
10) Robots that end the match at least partially supported by the scoring platform in their safe zone will receive 7 points each
11) Keep the can wars

[maxxman]

The only problem I see is what happens when you knock over an opponents stack?

Its hard to argue if the stack was going to fall over or not on its own and a capped 6 stack is worth alot more that a single tote on the platform.

You cannot have one big penalty because then we have all the problems from 2014 again.

[Kevin Leonard]

I wish the game was initially designed like this, but its probably too late for this.
Too many robots precariously carry stacks slowly for there to be any defense while they're carrying totes.

EDIT: Also teams that planned to straddle the platforms to score (like 1640, 20, 1501) can't play this game as well.

[pmangels17]

I love it! My only issue is that it seems a lot more likely that a stack of totes and RCs will fall out of the field with the scoring platforms where they are. Do you have a plan to mitigate damage that happens when 60lbs of game piece inevitably comes crashing down outside the field perimeter? Also, if you build giant tote walls on the side of the field, how do refs and spectators watch the match effectively? That being said, I would absolutely play this game, and certainly it is way better than Recycle Rush.

[Abhishek R]

So it this just a rearrangement of the field more or less? Do we need additional scoring platforms or anything for this? (Additional game pieces are alright, could probably ask teams if we could borrow some).

Because there's plenty of offseason events down in Texas... and here, defense is king, so it might be fun. Though I think so many robots are fragile (ours included) it wouldn't be feasible.

[Xavbro]

I rather play this during the offseason.

The only change i would make is have the scoring platforms about 1/2 a foot away from the guard rail for teams that straddle the platform to score.

[Electronica1]

Now you just need to add getting point for doing figure 8s around steps, and the points you get is for the number of totes you are holding. That would be the best chaos ever

[XaulZan11]

I think you would have to put something in the rule so teams can't have a tether touching their scoring zone so they are safe no matter where they go.

Plus, safe zones for slot loaders too.

Since it's just a restructuring of the field, there is nothing set in stone. It's just another way to play out this game in a way that hopefully is more enjoyable to play. It's designed to not have a complete manual with a rule for every contingency so that it can be easily adopted and modified for use by others. Everyone's suggestions are great points.

In the end a lot of teams have amazing robots for this year, and it would be a shame to see them compete in this kind of a game again in the offseason (or worse, not used because the game is so bad). I'm sure there are dozens of ways to reuse the same elements from this year to create a more enjoyable game. And if you figure one out, please post it to chief so that others can have a better offseason using it instead of Recycle Rubbish.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I think you would need a rule like VEX Skyrise that allows stacking from the feeder station to be a protected action. It worked very well to divide the field without actually dividing the field.

Also you would need an intentional ramming rule again as well because a 6 CIM, 6 MiniCIM drive train without bumpers could cause a lot of "defense" in this game. Also pinning rules again.

[cbale2000]

From a gameplay standpoint, I really like the concept, from a practicality standpoint though, there are two main problems that others have already pointed out:

1. Tall stacks blocking spectator and refs visibility
2. Stacks falling out of the field

The second problem could be solved in a few different ways; cables or nets running the length of the field (think 2013) could be used to alleviate the problem; backing refs away from the field would help a bit too.
The first problem is the biggest one though. I don't see a practical way to prevent view obstruction with this arrangement.

The other thought I would pose is that with this arrangement, you have robots from one alliance focusing on one side of the field, but its on one long side instead of a short side as is normal. Imo, it would be ideal if there was a way to split the scoring platforms so all the red zones are on one end of the field and blue on the other. Potentially you could divide these areas using single step segments but I'm not sure how feasible this would be.

[asid61]

Even pushing a robot would cause a stack to fall from a sufficiently adapted robot with blue nitrile tread wheels, 6 cim drivetrain geared for 6-10fps. A ramming action would topple anything, particularly near the platforms.
Look at 2002, for example. Not that many teams wouls stack; they just rammed the step in auton and played defense on their side of the field.

[AlexanderTheOK]

Its unfortunate. I really like this design. Most teams. however, designed around not having defense, and thus strategies that become very fragile with defense.

if you make the human feeder zones protected, I imagine it would be very difficult to play defense on a robot that stacks from there, as such a robot could spend the entire game in the protected zone.

I also feel however, that this game could be interesting for a non serious offseason where the teams can simply agree to not play defense. After all, you could still play the game by averages. Theres no point in sabotaging your opponent and having them sabotage you. Theres some coopertition for you!

Originally Posted by cbale2000

From a gameplay standpoint, I really like the concept, from a practicality standpoint though, there are two main problems that others have already pointed out:

1. Tall stacks blocking spectator and refs visibility
2. Stacks falling out of the field

The second problem could be solved in a few different ways; cables or nets running the length of the field (think 2013) could be used to alleviate the problem; backing refs away from the field would help a bit too.
The first problem is the biggest one though. I don't see a practical way to prevent view obstruction with this arrangement.

The other thought I would pose is that with this arrangement, you have robots from one alliance focusing on one side of the field, but its on one long side instead of a short side as is normal. Imo, it would be ideal if there was a way to split the scoring platforms so all the red zones are on one end of the field and blue on the other. Potentially you could divide these areas using single step segments but I'm not sure how feasible this would be.

Ideally a kind of polycarb backboard or 2013 style netting would be there. This was an issue that was considered in the formation of the current design style, but since it was made to be adaptable to how others wanted it I figured a solution was easy enough to be added that it didn't require being designed into the field. As for view obstruction, an alliance would need 17 stacks to take up all the space on the platform (and that's with totes in the long configuration). It should be no more of an obstruction than it was in the in-season game. I purposefully put the scoring zones on the sides and not the ends because end scoring zones kill the view from the alliance stations and it doesn't solve any of the problems from the in-season design.

Originally Posted by asid61

Even pushing a robot would cause a stack to fall from a sufficiently adapted robot with blue nitrile tread wheels, 6 cim drivetrain geared for 6-10fps. A ramming action would topple anything, particularly near the platforms.
Look at 2002, for example. Not that many teams wouls stack; they just rammed the step in auton and played defense on their side of the field.

Most robots this year don't have a drivetrain designed around pushing, and even if teams changed their drivetrains for this sort of offseason event it would be difficult to knock over stacks inside robots who have designed proper stack holding devices (and that was indeed a part of this year's game, so it's not something new that would need to be added). Combine that with how close the protected zones are to all the totes and how little travel distance is required between tote collecting and scoring and defense knocking over stacks in robots isn't enough of a concern to change anything.

Originally Posted by AlexanderTheOK

Its unfortunate. I really like this design. Most teams. however, designed around not having defense, and thus strategies that become very fragile with defense.

if you make the human feeder zones protected, I imagine it would be very difficult to play defense on a robot that stacks from there, as such a robot could spend the entire game in the protected zone.

I also feel however, that this game could be interesting for a non serious offseason where the teams can simply agree to not play defense. After all, you could still play the game by averages. Theres no point in sabotaging your opponent and having them sabotage you. Theres some coopertition for you!

I agree that most teams didn't design around defense, but I think a lot of people are comparing these robots to how well they'd hold up in the defense of Aerial Assault, not the more reasonable games such as Ultimate Ascent and Rebound Rumble (both of which have similar field setups). Even disregarding the nature of the field making it tough for high speed ramming, it's extremely easy to just have rules against it. I've seen a decent amount of robots this year, and none of them are weak enough to fail under normal defensive match conditions (and if some people are worried, optional bumpers are always easy to implement). I also considered protecting the human loading stations, but I'm not sure if that would make things too easy or not. Maybe the feeding station furthest from each alliance's scoring platform could be protected, but like I said earlier this redesign of Recycle Rush was meant to be adaptable by anyone who wanted to play it in their own way.

[M3rcuriel]

It's a good game layout - almost the game that Recycle Rush could have been. At the same time, however, because these robots were built for defenseless Recycle Rush, it's impractical to allow that level of defense. For instance, in autonomous, it is suddenly viable to ram teams to prevent can grabbing. Additionally, most robotics this year will just drop stacks if hit, even with significant redesign.