[FRC Blog] Two Championship Survey Results and Path Forward

[northstardon]

Originally Posted by iVanDuzer

In terms of Chairman's, I would love to say "all Chairman's Teams should end up at the Tier One Event." I think that winning Chairman's would net a bunch of points, but unless you have a semi-decent robot (say, Semi-Finals at a regional, OR decent seeding, depending on how the points work out), then you wouldn't qualify for the Championship Event. A similar structure should be implemented for RAS and EI, although they'd need better on-field performance to qualify. Basically, winning any of these big awards should make it easier for you to get into the top-tier event. I firmly believe in the worth and value that Chairman's, RAS, and EI teams bring to the Championship event.

Isn't there some conflict between a tiered model that relegates CA winners to the lower tier event and the fact that the Chairman's Award is the most prestigious award that a FRC team can win? If regional/district CA winners with "semi-decent" robots qualify for Tier 1, and the other CA winners are in Tier 2, then how would you go about determining a CCA? Would there still be HOF teams?

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by northstardon

Isn't there some conflict between a tiered model that relegates CA winners to the lower tier event and the fact that the Chairman's Award is the most prestigious award that a FRC team can win? If regional/district CA winners with "semi-decent" robots qualify for Tier 1, and the other CA winners are in Tier 2, then how would you go about determining a CCA? Would there still be HOF teams?

I think he's saying that a Chairman's award AND a semi-decent robot should be necessary, but a Chairman's Award alone shouldn't be enough. However, I'd guess the Chairman-winning teams with a bottom tier robot are few and far in between; the type of program that earns a Chairman's Award correlates strongly to the type of program that will put out a quality machine.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by northstardon

Isn't there some conflict between a tiered model that relegates CA winners to the lower tier event and the fact that the Chairman's Award is the most prestigious award that a FRC team can win?

I do believe there is. HOWEVER, I think that that is primarily because certain people absolutely insist on having "tiered" events rather than geographically-apportioned events. Remember, folks, always choose the LESSER of two evils (if you have a choice, which I'm pretty sure we DON'T).

If regional/district CA winners with "semi-decent" robots qualify for Tier 1, and the other CA winners are in Tier 2, then how would you go about determining a CCA? Would there still be HOF teams?

Probably about the same way you'd do it under the "even-tier" system. Each event contributes one. And of course they'd be HoF teams. Think about it this way: Is [insert sport here]'s Hall of Fame cheapened by the addition of X players/year instead of just 1, when there are about 5X players that are probably deserving? Course not. And, just to drive the point home: There are about 60 RCA/DCMPCA winners per year right now. 1/60 is a shade under 2% of all current regional/district champs winners. For reference, that's about how many Boy Scouts make Eagle in any given year. Pick 2 instead of 1, that's 3% or so. It just means that it's a slightly bigger crowd in there.

And if you're giving double the CCAs, that should mean more inspiration from (and for) those teams, and definitely means more recognition (within FIRST) for one or both of their efforts. Now that, I think, is a win-win--might even be something that should be done anyways. Bring back the CCA Honorable Mentions!

[iVanDuzer]

Originally Posted by EricH

I do believe there is. HOWEVER, I think that that is primarily because certain people absolutely insist on having "tiered" events rather than geographically-apportioned events. Remember, folks, always choose the LESSER of two evils (if you have a choice, which I'm pretty sure we DON'T).

Well, I'm still under the impression that a two-tiered system (where there are multiple tier-two events) IS the lesser of two evils

And if you're giving double the CCAs, that should mean more inspiration from (and for) those teams, and definitely means more recognition (within FIRST) for one or both of their efforts. Now that, I think, is a win-win--might even be something that should be done anyways. Bring back the CCA Honorable Mentions!

I like this. The Chairman's Award judging process is always so nebulous and opaque. Giving teams a "runner's up" nod would go a long way to transforming many of these already-great programs into Hall of Fame worthy, astronomically inspiring programs.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by iVanDuzer

Well, I'm still under the impression that a two-tiered system (where there are multiple tier-two events) IS the lesser of two evils

That whole "multiple" part is where I can agree, somewhat--if you look at my other posts, I actually advocate scrapping DCMPs AND any "extra" championships for super regionals once enough areas go district. Just that some folks seem to be thinking that there are two CMPs, therefore there must be tiers between the two.


To be clear, where I see FIRST given enough time: "local" event (district) x2 -> Super Regional (x some number TBD) -> Championship. Possibly sneak a "state" championship in there somewhere. Super Regionals get a lot of the attention CMP currently gets--conferences, etc.--and CMP is the best of the best, for both competition and CCA/EI. WITH their robots!