pic: Simple Chain-in-Tube Concept

[pribusin]

Nice! Do you have a cutaway of the inside of the tube-in-chain? I'm not quite sure what the inside would look like. How do you assemble this? are there access slots/holes to access the chain?

[Sperkowsky]

Call this a stupid question but how do you assemble the chains and sprockets inside the tubing.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Call this a stupid question but how do you assemble the chains and sprockets inside the tubing.

Very carefully.

What we have is a piece of hex shaft that is cut to the width of the sprocket(s). Then loop the chain around the sprockets, and drop that into the tube. Last push the axles through the sprockets when they are in place and slide the bearings over the axles.

[Bryce Paputa]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

loading photo ...

If you're using the 17t sprockets from 221, a wheel c-c distance that's divisible by .25 won't work without using a half link, which gave us problems. The distance should be something like 11.625 where if you divide it by .25 the remainder is .125.

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Bryce Paputa

If you're using the 17t sprockets from 221, a wheel c-c distance that's divisible by .25 won't work without using a half link, which gave us problems. The distance should be something like 11.625 where if you divide it by .25 the remainder is .125.

Thanks. I've gotten rid of the incorrect information.

[chrisfl]

Have you been successful with #25 chain in the drivetrain? Im working on one right now and it is spaced for #25 chain.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by chrisfl

Have you been successful with #25 chain in the drivetrain? Im working on one right now and it is spaced for #25 chain.

We've used it for three drivetrains now without any issues. I've never seen a chain break, only get thrown when there is angular misalignment between two sprockets.

[ToddF]

Originally Posted by chrisfl

Have you been successful with #25 chain in the drivetrain? I'm working on one right now and it is spaced for #25 chain.

Yes, for the past 3 years. Our 2013 and 2014 bots used the team221 COTS side rails with tensionable outer bearing blocks. Our 2015 bot used a chain in tube design that we developed during the summer of 2014. You can download the CAD models, including the chain in tube design, at FRCdesigns.com.

I presented our original idea for the Quick Build Drivetrain at the Hampton Roads FRC Summit in 2012. I gave an update and a description of our West Coast drive train development program at the 2014 FRC Summit.

Correction: While our 2015 bot used WCD side rails, it technically was not a true a west coast drive. We took the center mounted gearbox and moved it to the end opposite the crate stack. Then we omitted the center wheels and replaced the front Colson wheels with omnis. (Pics in the picasa galleries linked in my sig.) The internal power transmission components, however, are identical to the West Coast drive train we developed over the summer of 2014. This fixed-spacing chain-in-tube design, won us two regionals and took us to the quarter-finals at CMP with literally zero maintenance. I think that once we got to St. Louis someone said, "Hey, shouldn't we put some more grease on the gearbox gears?" Caveat: the 2015 game was super easy on drivetrains, requiring neither high speed nor pushing power.

[Ty Tremblay]

I've made a few updates to this drive train.

• Switched to 4" wheels after taking another look at the numbers. This should give me actual speeds of 6/14 fps
• Moved to retaining the wheels with screws and washers to better reflect my team's machining capabilities.
• Added features for the box tubing to set into on the rails, this will help us make sure everything is aligned before welding.
• Created an example for a no-welding setup for teams without access to welding. This also allows for all VexPro 3rd stage reductions to be used (box tubing option doesn't allow for 60- and 64-tooth gears).
• Added basic bumper framing.

Updated model
No welding setup
No welding drive rail

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

I've made a few updates to this drive train.

• Switched to 4" wheels after taking another look at the numbers. This should give me actual speeds of 6/14 fps
• Moved to retaining the wheels with screws and washers to better reflect my team's machining capabilities.
• Added features for the box tubing to set into on the rails, this will help us make sure everything is aligned before welding.
• Created an example for a no-welding setup for teams without access to welding. This also allows for all VexPro 3rd stage reductions to be used (box tubing option doesn't allow for 60- and 64-tooth gears).
• Added basic bumper framing.

Updated model
No welding setup
No welding drive rail

Have you run those bumper rails before?

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Have you run those bumper rails before?

I have not. I used the mantra of "copy the best and invent the rest" (thanks Mike Corsetto).

I took inspiration from 118's 2014 CAD as well as 971's one-bumper manufacturing style with reinforced corners.



We plan to do our own testing, but if 118's design lasted the season in Aerial Assault, my initial hunch is that our more conservative design will too.

[Cash4587]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

I have not. I used the mantra of "copy the best and invent the rest" (thanks Mike Corsetto).

I took inspiration from 118's 2014 CAD as well as 971's one-bumper manufacturing style with reinforced corners.



We plan to do our own testing, but if 118's design lasted the season in Aerial Assault, my initial hunch is that our more conservative design will too.

That round tube you see on their drive was actually only to fulfill the rule that there should be no "unsupported" side of the bumper greater than 8" After seeing it at competition it really didn't even support the bumper but it was there only to pass inspection.

I'm not quite sure how they mounted it but my guess is they just tapped the ends of that tube or round stock and bolted it onto those large 2x1 uprights. IIRC the inspectors made them lift their robot by their "Bumper supports" (The round stock in the screenshot) in order for them to pass the inspection proving that "Those actually do support the bumpers". They used those large holes with large threaded bolts attached to the bumpers to mount their bumpers to their robot.

If I were to use what 118 did, I would in fact just use a piece of aluminum rod or even thunderhex shaft that is tapped to do what they did in a similar fashion.

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Cash4587

That round tube you see on their drive was actually only to fulfill the rule that there should be no "unsupported" side of the bumper greater than 8" After seeing it at competition it really didn't even support the bumper but it was there only to pass inspection.

I'm not quite sure how they mounted it but my guess is they just tapped the ends of that tube or round stock and bolted it onto those large 2x1 uprights. IIRC the inspectors made them lift their robot by their "Bumper supports" (The round stock in the screenshot) in order for them to pass the inspection proving that "Those actually do support the bumpers". They used those large holes with large threaded bolts attached to the bumpers to mount their bumpers to their robot.

If I were to use what 118 did, I would in fact just use a piece of aluminum rod or even thunderhex shaft that is tapped to do what they did in a similar fashion.

Right, but like I said, this is a more conservative approach.

[billbo911]

I really like this design and may consider proposing it, if it makes sence for the game.
I do think there is a problem with it though. Assembling the transmissions to the chassis. (Please correct me if I wrong here.)

If I am seeing this correctly, the tube mounts need to be installed to the frame first, then the transmissions to the mounts. The problem is, the drive shaft is long enough that motors will not allow correct alignment to the two rail bearings because the belly pan is in the way. Servicing this, or replacing a motor might be a bit difficult.

If these issues are easy to address, please explain how. I like this design and would love to use it!

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by billbo911

I really like this design and may consider proposing it, if it makes sence for the game.
I do think there is a problem with it though. Assembling the transmissions to the chassis. (Please correct me if I wrong here.)

If I am seeing this correctly, the tube mounts need to be installed to the frame first, then the transmissions to the mounts. The problem is, the drive shaft is long enough that motors will not allow correct alignment to the two rail bearings because the belly pan is in the way. Servicing this, or replacing a motor might be a bit difficult.

If these issues are easy to address, please explain how. I like this design and would love to use it!

The drive shaft on the middle wheel, along with the gear on that shaft, remains in the tube when the transmission is removed. The interface between the removable transmission and the frame consists of the mounting bolts and the gear interface.