Go to Post Teams helping teams out is the lifeblood of FIRST. - Koko Ed [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 3.60 average. Display Modes
  #136   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2015, 13:38
Mike Schreiber's Avatar
Mike Schreiber Mike Schreiber is offline
Registered User
FRC #0067 (The HOT Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 476
Mike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblake View Post
That page offers links to use if you want to start a team, or if you want to offer corporate support, or if you want to write a snail-mail letter. I don't think I want to do any of those.
I was linking this for the email addresses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill View Post
Why is FRC considered more important to have than FTC? What if a high school wants a FIRST team, but space is an issue (which is often the case)? They are likely able to support an FTC team but not an FRC team.
I don't know, I'm not sure I disagree with you either. I just wanted to point out that FIRST's mission statement and FiM's are NOT the same.

Don Bossi even said at championships (I'm paraphrasing, don't remember the exact quote) that the only organization that believes FRC in every high school is an ideal/viable solution is FiM.
__________________
Mike Schreiber

Kettering University ('09-'13) University of Michigan ('14-'18?)
FLL ('01-'02), FRC Team 27 ('06-'09), Team 397 ('10), Team 3450/314 ('11), Team 67 ('14-'??)
Reply With Quote
  #137   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2015, 18:51
angelah angelah is offline
Registered User
FRC #3547
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 88
angelah has a spectacular aura aboutangelah has a spectacular aura about
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Don't bother trying to contact FiM. I have several middle school FLL teams and am in the process of starting more, so this thread has concerned me. I sent an email this week outlining what was said and my concerns. I received a one line reply today that an email would be sent to FLL teams in the next few days. No information.

I'm deeply invested in this topic, and I have a lot to say. I'm holding off until there is official, public information available, though.
Reply With Quote
  #138   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2015, 19:34
Siri's Avatar
Siri Siri is offline
Dare greatly
AKA: 1640 coach 2010-2014
no team (Refs & RIs)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 1,603
Siri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond reputeSiri has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to Siri
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Questions I have in reading this thread:

1) Do we understand how many (whether greater than or equal to zero) students will now not be able to participate in FIRST? In their preferred program? In any robotics program? Is FiM making an active effort to prevent this, and can someone knowledgeable assess that effort?

2) Do the FiM/MI grants sufficiently offset costs for teams that need to convert from FLL to FTC? Is this transition being facilitated, and how well?

3) Does the dislike around telling teams what to do extend to the current worldwide age cutoffs? (I'm not saying this negates any argument, not the least because change itself is important.) FLL is capped at 14yo in North America and 16yo externally. Are there 15/17-year-olds who want to continue in FLL or are in places without alternatives? What if any help happens there that might be adopted here?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #139   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 11:55
RMiller RMiller is offline
Taking a Year Off
AKA: Ryan Miller
no team
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Villa Park, IL
Posts: 341
RMiller is just really niceRMiller is just really niceRMiller is just really niceRMiller is just really niceRMiller is just really nice
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Can someone enlighten me on this question - is it possible for non-high school teams (homeschool, 4-H groups, community teams, etc) to receive funds from the state/FiM for FTC and/or FRC?

To another group of individuals (maybe) - is VRC strong enough in Michigan that teams/organizations could go that route without significant difficulty (e.g. needing to travel outside of Michigan to compete at all)? Really, is the suggestion that a high school or high school aged group compete in VRC as an alternative a viable alternative?
__________________
2002-2004: 967 Mean Machine
2006-2008: 1816 Green Machine
2008-2010: 2739 Bucket of Bolts (BOB)
Reply With Quote
  #140   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 12:09
Allison K's Avatar
Allison K Allison K is offline
Registered User
AKA: Allison Kneisler
FRC #3538 (Avondale RoboJackets)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 585
Allison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond reputeAllison K has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
Can someone enlighten me on this question - is it possible for non-high school teams (homeschool, 4-H groups, community teams, etc) to receive funds from the state/FiM for FTC and/or FRC?

To another group of individuals (maybe) - is VRC strong enough in Michigan that teams/organizations could go that route without significant difficulty (e.g. needing to travel outside of Michigan to compete at all)? Really, is the suggestion that a high school or high school aged group compete in VRC as an alternative a viable alternative?
State of Michigan Grant funds for FTC/FRC - The emails from last year are pretty clear that only public school districts may benefit from the state grant funding. Private schools, community groups, etc. are not eligible. I'm not sure where charter schools fall.

Viability of VRC in Michigan - VRC is in general a very accessible option in Michigan for middle school and high school level teams. There were at least 25 VRC events in Michigan last season (2014-2015), as well as 9ish VEX IQ events for elementary school/middle school age group.

(There's a number of other posts that I'd like to respond to as well, but this one was a straightforward response)
__________________
FRC3538 : RoboJackets : 2014-??? : Head Coach & Drive Coach
FRC226 : Hammerheads : 2003-2013 : Strategist
Reply With Quote
  #141   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 12:26
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Raptors can't turn doorknobs.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 2,513
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Questions I have in reading this thread:

1) Do we understand how many (whether greater than or equal to zero) students will now not be able to participate in FIRST? In their preferred program? In any robotics program? Is FiM making an active effort to prevent this, and can someone knowledgeable assess that effort?

2) Do the FiM/MI grants sufficiently offset costs for teams that need to convert from FLL to FTC? Is this transition being facilitated, and how well?

3) Does the dislike around telling teams what to do extend to the current worldwide age cutoffs? (I'm not saying this negates any argument, not the least because change itself is important.) FLL is capped at 14yo in North America and 16yo externally. Are there 15/17-year-olds who want to continue in FLL or are in places without alternatives? What if any help happens there that might be adopted here?
#2 - FTC is essentially free to start teams with the amount of grant money FiM provides.
Reply With Quote
  #142   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 14:32
angelah angelah is offline
Registered User
FRC #3547
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 88
angelah has a spectacular aura aboutangelah has a spectacular aura about
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
Can someone enlighten me on this question - is it possible for non-high school teams (homeschool, 4-H groups, community teams, etc) to receive funds from the state/FiM for FTC and/or FRC?
The state funding is handled through public schools only. Our team is a community team, so we affiliated with an ISD (Intermediate School District, like a county school.) The state allowed homeschoolers and private school students to participate on the team, as well as public schools students, under the umbrella of the school district.
Reply With Quote
  #143   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 16:55
gblake's Avatar
gblake gblake is offline
6th Gear Developer; Mentor
AKA: Blake Ross
no team (6th Gear)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,934
gblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knufire View Post
Here's some publically available information relating to a few of your questions:
http://www.firstinmichigan.org/Docum...IRSTgrants.pdf
http://www.techplan.org/downloads/pd...4_105933_3.pdf
FYI: The material at these links describe the eligibility requirements Michigan was using at some point (I don't recall what academic year they are for). More than one type of "school" is eligible, but I'm not familiar enough with the nuances of Michigan education to interpret everything there for someone else. Interested folks should follow the links.

One thing that is obvious is that the tax dollars involved (Michigan and NASA) are being aimed at schools, not at communities (communities include schools, and many other groups that are fine vehicles for accomplishing broad STEM inspiration).
__________________
Blake Ross, For emailing me, in the verizon.net domain, I am blake
VRC Team Mentor, FTC volunteer, 5th Gear Developer, Husband, Father, Triangle Fraternity Alumnus (ky 76), U Ky BSEE, Tau Beta Pi, Eta Kappa Nu, Kentucky Colonel
Words/phrases I avoid: basis, mitigate, leveraging, transitioning, impact (instead of affect/effect), facilitate, programmatic, problematic, issue (instead of problem), latency (instead of delay), dependency (instead of prerequisite), connectivity, usage & utilize (instead of use), downed, functionality, functional, power on, descore, alumni (instead of alumnus/alumna), the enterprise, methodology, nomenclature, form factor (instead of size or shape), competency, modality, provided(with), provision(ing), irregardless/irrespective, signage, colorized, pulsating, ideate
Reply With Quote
  #144   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 19:04
Mr V's Avatar
Mr V Mr V is offline
FIRST Senior Mentor Washington
FRC #5588 (Reign)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Maple Valley Wa
Posts: 994
Mr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond reputeMr V has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblake View Post
FYI: The material at these links describe the eligibility requirements Michigan was using at some point (I don't recall what academic year they are for). More than one type of "school" is eligible, but I'm not familiar enough with the nuances of Michigan education to interpret everything there for someone else. Interested folks should follow the links.

One thing that is obvious is that the tax dollars involved (Michigan and NASA) are being aimed at schools, not at communities (communities include schools, and many other groups that are fine vehicles for accomplishing broad STEM inspiration).
The grant money from the MI public schools is for public schools, I'm not sure why you keep suggesting that it should go anywhere but public schools. I'm sure doing so would violate and least a couple of rules about spending public school money.

MI has nothing to do with NASA grants and the NASA grants are not targeted to teams at public schools, I know of community teams that have received the grant in the past.

The FIRST grant also mentioned in some of the materials again has nothing to do with MI and is not open to only public schools. Again I know of teams that were not at a public school that have received that grant in the past.


While we are at it FiM's reason for being is not to promote or facilitate robotics or STEM it is to promote FIRST in the state of MI. So when they went to the MI public schools and asked for grants for FIRST programs that is what they were doing, asking for funding for FIRST programs, not robotics or STEM activites even though FIRST is robotics and a STEM activity.

I've seen something similar brought up in regards to the OSPI (Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction) grants in Washington state. "Why aren't they available to start or run VEX teams?" Because it was members of Washington FIRST Robotics and FIRST Robotics Competition teams who lobbied the Legislature and OSPI for the funding. "Why aren't non-Public schools eligible?" Because the Washington state public education funds can only be given to public schools per the laws of WA state.
__________________
All statements made on Chief Delphi by me are my own opinions and are not official FIRST rulings or opinions and should not be construed as such.




https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-...77508782410839
Reply With Quote
  #145   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 21:45
Peter Chen Peter Chen is offline
Registered User
FLL #2033 (Brick Warriors)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2015
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2
Peter Chen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

The issue in Michigan isn't really about which teams FiM gives grants to. The issue is which ages FiM will allow to participate in FLL (and FTC). Here's part of the e-mail that was sent out by FiM:

Quote:
Date: Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:31 PM
Subject: Starting FTC teams in your middle schools, FLL in elementary

Teams
As the FIRST website opens for registration of FLL and FTC, I want to clarify how the Michigan progression differs from the US FIRST progression. Teams inside of Michigan must follow our progression. This is the only way to have team within Michigan.

Here is our progression:
FRC High School only
FTC Middle School only (as defined by your school district)
FLL Late Elementary (4th grade to end of your elementary schools)
Jr. FLL Early Elementary K-3

While no new middle school FLL teams may be started, there are some middle school FLL teams that have been around since before we started FTC. By next year (Sept 2016) they will all have to be aligned.
Reply With Quote
  #146   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 22:20
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,730
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Chen View Post
The issue in Michigan isn't really about which teams FiM gives grants to. The issue is which ages FiM will allow to participate in FLL (and FTC). Here's part of the e-mail that was sent out by FiM:
That part: "This is the only way to have team in Michigan." concerns me.

Translation #1: Either somebody didn't copy this right, or somebody needs more English classes. Probably the latter is the case.

Translation #2: All the alternate approaches discussed previously are OUT. Regardless of whether the students, teachers, or schools are ready for this progression, they have to make it. That's FiM's line, and they're sticking to it. Whether it's a good idea or not is up for debate.



I'm going to make a prediction. I don't know if it's possible to track it, but I suspect that the number of high schools involved in FIRST will FALL, rather than RISE. And I'm going to go out even farther and predict that the driving factor--for once--won't be the lack of mentors. It'll be the lack of funding, or the lack of administration support for playing in FRC. I REALLY hope I'm wrong on both counts.

Spoiler for Reasoning:
The reason I'm saying this is simple: Right now, that number of high schools is FRC+FTC+rookies. Now, we remove FTC from that equation. FRC+rookies. But, some FTC schools will make the jump--call them FRC2 to distinguish from raw rookies. Now we have FRC+FRC2+rookies. If that number of rookie FRC school teams is < the number of FTC teams lost, the number of high schools involved in FIRST will be going down. Plain and simple.

I leave it to the reader's discretion as to whether it is better for a high school to be in FRC, FIRST, or some other STEM program (VRC--who, if they're alert enough, can probably scoop up a few extra teams--or somebody else I'm not aware of).
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

Reply With Quote
  #147   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-06-2015, 23:27
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,243
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Apologies if this has been answered and I missed it, but I wanted to ask again:

Is this being done with FIRST HQ's awareness and blessing?
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #148   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-06-2015, 07:00
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is online now
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 3,629
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison View Post
Is this being done with FIRST HQ's awareness and blessing?
Probably it is, but in the same sense that District competition was -- FiM began as a revolution, and was later called a 'trial program' by HQ.

As the late sixteenth century courtier* Sir John Harington is famously quoted, "Treason never prospers -- what's the reason? For, if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

Will the FiM model for progression through FIRST progams prosper? Watch and see, or better yet jump in and help.

-----

*Sir John's career was marked by many episodes of royal disfavor. He was more skilled at seeking forgiveness than permission. He is credited with inventing the flush toilet.
__________________
Richard Wallace

Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor 2002-10 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003

I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
Reply With Quote
  #149   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-06-2015, 12:07
Ed Law's Avatar
Ed Law Ed Law is offline
Registered User
no team (formerly with 2834)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Foster City, CA, USA
Posts: 752
Ed Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond reputeEd Law has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

I think the discussions here boils down to who should have control over decisions. I debated for a while if I should just be quiet and stay out of this. I decided to explain where I come from and share my personal opinion.

I coached youth sports for many years from T-ball to soccer. My kids were involved in many other competitive sports from swimming to tennis to golf. I had to deal with parents as the coach or have experience with how other parents on the team demand from the coaches. My conclusion is it is very difficult to keep all the parents happy if their primary motive is only advocating for their son or daughter. In general parents are not happy with fixed age groups. Some parents want their kids move up to play or practice with older or better kids because they think their kids are more advanced than their peers. Some parents want their kids to stay back so their kids will feel more successful. The only way to keep all parents happy is if the league allow parents to decide which group to sign up their kids. Even then some other parents will not be happy because they don't want their kids playing with other kids who are not at their level. It never ends. Another way to keep parents happy is to let them decide what position/role their kids will play on the team and how much playing time. Obviously this would not be best for the team which is why there are coaches who have to make these decisions.

Now let's talk about the FIRST program. I have had parents who want their 8 year olds to be on FLL teams because they are more mature and more advanced according to them. There are also parents who want their 7th and 8th graders stay on FLL teams instead of FTC teams (in Michigan). There are parents who want their 8th graders on FRC teams and I have parents who want their 9th graders to be able to do both FTC and FRC. They all have their reasons: maturity, convenience, logistics, being with friends etc. To keep all the parents happy in our school district, we will have to make FLL K-8, FTC 5-12 and FRC 6-12, and parents will decide what they want to sign up. It is all about having control. Is that practical? No.

Do I agree with all of FiM's decisions over the years? The honest answer is no. It is because some things were not convenient for me or it didnot benefit me or any other me me me reasons. Do I support FiM's decisions? The answer is 100% yes. I will do everything I can to make sure what FiM decided will have a chance of being successful. It is about trusting they do it for good reasons. It is about those decisions benefiting the most number of teams or the FIRST programs in Michigan in general.

Do I like the FLL, FTC and FRC cutoff in Michigan? No. It makes my life more difficult because it is more work for us (in our district). But I will accept their decision and move on, and I will fully support it.
__________________
Please don't call me Mr. Ed, I am not a talking horse.
Reply With Quote
  #150   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-06-2015, 12:22
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Raptors can't turn doorknobs.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 2,513
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Keep FIRST in Michigan (FiM) from killing FIRST Lego League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Law View Post
I think the discussions here boils down to who should have control over decisions. I debated for a while if I should just be quiet and stay out of this. I decided to explain where I come from and share my personal opinion.

I coached youth sports for many years from T-ball to soccer. My kids were involved in many other competitive sports from swimming to tennis to golf. I had to deal with parents as the coach or have experience with how other parents on the team demand from the coaches. My conclusion is it is very difficult to keep all the parents happy if their primary motive is only advocating for their son or daughter. In general parents are not happy with fixed age groups. Some parents want their kids move up to play or practice with older or better kids because they think their kids are more advanced than their peers. Some parents want their kids to stay back so their kids will feel more successful. The only way to keep all parents happy is if the league allow parents to decide which group to sign up their kids. Even then some other parents will not be happy because they don't want their kids playing with other kids who are not at their level. It never ends. Another way to keep parents happy is to let them decide what position/role their kids will play on the team and how much playing time. Obviously this would not be best for the team which is why there are coaches who have to make these decisions.

Now let's talk about the FIRST program. I have had parents who want their 8 year olds to be on FLL teams because they are more mature and more advanced according to them. There are also parents who want their 7th and 8th graders stay on FLL teams instead of FTC teams (in Michigan). There are parents who want their 8th graders on FRC teams and I have parents who want their 9th graders to be able to do both FTC and FRC. They all have their reasons: maturity, convenience, logistics, being with friends etc. To keep all the parents happy in our school district, we will have to make FLL K-8, FTC 5-12 and FRC 6-12, and parents will decide what they want to sign up. It is all about having control. Is that practical? No.

Do I agree with all of FiM's decisions over the years? The honest answer is no. It is because some things were not convenient for me or it didnot benefit me or any other me me me reasons. Do I support FiM's decisions? The answer is 100% yes. I will do everything I can to make sure what FiM decided will have a chance of being successful. It is about trusting they do it for good reasons. It is about those decisions benefiting the most number of teams or the FIRST programs in Michigan in general.

Do I like the FLL, FTC and FRC cutoff in Michigan? No. It makes my life more difficult because it is more work for us (in our district). But I will accept their decision and move on, and I will fully support it.
Very well said, and I'm in the same boat. For reference, as of this year I will have 1 son in high school, one in middle, and one in elementary. Last year, I coached their (non-school affiliated) FLL team which was funded through grants from a number of local Michigan companies. This next year, each will be on a different team. You want to talk about logistical headaches? It's going to be a pain in the posterior.

Yet I understand the long term goals, I see what FiM has done so far in Michigan, and I'm going to support them 100%. In a different thread I saw someone called a 'FIRST apologist' because they stuck behind First decisions. I guess I'm an FiM apologist, at least until I see their long term decisions start hurting the MAJORITY of the teams in the state, rather than helping them.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:54.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi