Engineering "Educator" Degree Programs

[ebarker]

I need your opinion, please.

We are working on an initiative to create a B.S. in Engineering Education.

This degree is the 1st half of a generalized engineering degree, plus the education courses needed to be a teacher.

The degree has an intensive junior level class, similar to MIT 2.007, which is the course that FIRST was designed from.

Restated, students will have a full semester course in product design / development, with the goal of preparing teachers to become effective FIRST teachers / mentors.

The second initiative we are working on is developing the concept of a 'head coach' teacher model, similar to high school football. The high school would have a full-time teacher that spent maybe 1/2 time teaching formal classes, and 1/2 time on robotics and other things, after school. Just like your high school football coach.

Here is my question. How many students that participate in FIRST would elect to do robotics as a career, as a high school teacher, if a) you could get a high quality engineering educator degree, and b) you could work in a 'head-coach' environment where the school system formally supported your work and team ?

.

[Joe G.]

Not a student anymore, but I absolutely would. The fact that opportunities to do so are so rare that it seems unreachable is extremely frustrating.

[Tim Sharp]

That sounds like a great idea. It's very similar to what I do now with a math certification.
Have you checked with your state Board of Ed about creating an engineering certification?

[Govind Girish]

I am currently still a student (going to be a senior). I myself and several other student leads on my team have expressed a solid interest in a program like this. Most of the coaches or mentors we've seen from other teams are ex-sports coaches or ex-science/math teachers.

The problem many of us face is choosing between education and engineering. As you probably guessed, most of us choose engineering because there aren't many options for combining the two fields. This is definitely something I know we would be interested in.

[Jamie Kalb]

I’d do it in a second. Teaching and engineering are my dual passions in life, and I would jump at a chance to combine the two as a career.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Tim Sharp

That sounds like a great idea. It's very similar to what I do now with a math certification.
Have you checked with your state Board of Ed about creating an engineering certification?

I work for a large university, one of the largest in the state, and we are the largest producers of teachers. We also now have a college of engineering and mechatronics. To answer your question yes, I am very involved with the various state entities.

The intent is to deliver multiple pathways to get into education. The most interesting is a student entering college as a freshman with the intent of becoming an engineering education teacher. It is optimized to create teachers that can do things like FRC and other programs with high performance. Other options include training and certification for existing teachers and existing engineers. I think the best and most committed teachers will be graduates of high school robotics programs.

What I'm asking here and the original intent of this thread is to gauge interest and solicit commentary from the CD community, about becoming a teacher.

Thank you all in for your comments.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ebarker

What I'm asking here and the original intent of this thread is to gauge interest and solicit commentary from the CD community, about becoming a teacher.

Speaking for my high school senior self some years back: 50-50 chance I'd have been interested.

Speaking today: Chances are much higher...

[sanddrag]

This is a great idea. I applaud your efforts.

[wilsonmw04]

What would this degree license the person to teach? How many part time teacher/part time coaches are there in your state?

I guess it boils down to: Is there a need for this? what does this do that your typical CTE teacher can't cover already?

[waialua359]

I had a chance to talk extensively with Ed at the FRC World Championships 2 months ago. I am absolutely impressed with the vision and efforts he has put in towards Engineering Education. Its only a matter of time before his program, Team 1311 win the CCA.
As an educator with an engineering degree much like David from 696, we are in a field where more and more engineers are becoming educators. I've seen many professionals try to do career changes at our school, even one that had his PhD this past year. They struggled mightily for 3 main reasons.
One, they didnt understand how to work within our State DOE system, a compliance based one where buying a single pencil can seem like walking a mile.
Two, they knew their content, but couldnt effectively translate it to students in the classroom because of a lack of teaching pedagogy.
Three, they needed help on classroom management skills, where the problem is compounded by lack of funding, overcrowded classrooms, and lack of facilities.

Every team needs engineers and educators. How powerful would it be if you had an Engineering Educator?

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

What would this degree license the person to teach? How many part time teacher/part time coaches are there in your state?

I guess it boils down to: Is there a need for this? what does this do that your typical CTE teacher can't cover already?

Here's the biggest problem that we have in our State and I'll assume its the same elsewhere in many parts of the country: Finding good CTE teachers that are qualified.
The CTE pipeline has been dwindling down in recent years in our State. Our Auto program died several years ago and our Woodshop class has a teacher who isnt fully qualified to do the job.
The community colleges now offer CTE Alternative certification programs, but they have a hard time getting people to change careers because of pay. Many tradesmen have no degrees and our State isnt willing to pay them more than an entry level teacher's salary because of it. Who's going to want to take a pay cut to start teaching? If I take Woodshop, I want someone who has experience in the real world to teach the class.

1. Why do we tell our best Math students to become Accountants or Engineers? Shouldnt the best Math student major in education where the brightest teach our future generations?
2. In our very own FRC program, we encourage our students to become engineers and not educators.

I believe that by offering Engineering education, you attract students who are smart enough to become engineers, instead make a career of teaching future generations of students.

[jwfoss]

Ed, you may want to look into similar programs from other areas. When I was considering my college selections I noted that Central Connecticut State University (CCSU) has a well developed and pretty well know Technology and Engineering Education degree program.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by ebarker

The second initiative we are working on is developing the concept of a 'head coach' teacher model, similar to high school football. The high school would have a full-time teacher that spent maybe 1/2 time teaching formal classes, and 1/2 time on robotics and other things, after school. Just like your high school football coach.

Here is my question. How many students that participate in FIRST would elect to do robotics as a career, as a high school teacher, if a) you could get a high quality engineering educator degree, and b) you could work in a 'head-coach' environment where the school system formally supported your work and team ?

.

I'm doing something very similar this fall with Georgia Tech and 1648's high school, where I will be a robotics coach/teaching assistant and be paid with a stipend. I'd definitely be interested in something like this in the future.

I feel like it would be beneficial to have some experience in industry before pursuing an education degree. While I've considered teaching in engineering as a potential career, the experience I get in industry will only build my base of knowledge to teach from. Perhaps this program could be a master's-degree program for the best effect?

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

I'm doing something very similar this fall with Georgia Tech and 1648's high school, where I will be a robotics coach/teaching assistant and be paid with a stipend. I'd definitely be interested in something like this in the future.

I feel like it would be beneficial to have some experience in industry before pursuing an education degree. While I've considered teaching in engineering as a potential career, the experience I get in industry will only build my base of knowledge to teach from. Perhaps this program could be a master's-degree program for the best effect?

This is how I feel about it. If you're coming at it from a teachers' college, this makes a lot of sense. You're recruiting people that want to go to a teacher's college into teaching engineering. (Which is good.)

I don't know that you'll pick up many would-be engineers this way, though. Or if you do, I'm afraid they might be disappointed. I'm not sure if this is part of your target audience, but if so, have you considered adding a master's degree program? Not immediately of course (take your time). A 2-year grad degree specifically for transitioning engineers into teacher certification could reach a very different but also good (arguably better, but I won't argue it here) audience. Or even a 5-year dual degree that finishes with a BSE and an teacher certification--that one I might've done myself.

Personally (so that you know this type of person exists): I used my undergrad to become published author in engineering curriculum development, to TA four courses, and to coach an FRC team while earning an honors dual degree in engineering and liberal arts. I'm now working for the university in engineering education development before I start teaching high school science with WorldTeach. This bachelor's is literally at the intersection of my passions and pursuits, and I never would've opted for it. I can't imagine giving up any part of my undergraduate engineering education, much less essentially half of it. I wouldn't be nearly as useful to students or society in the roles I want without those experiences. I intend to become a certified teacher as well, but not at the sacrifice of being an engineer. Whereas if you opened that master's degree program, I'd start looking for apartments in Georgia. (Is this UGA?)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Siri

... but if so, have you considered adding a master's degree program? Not immediately of course (take your time). A 2-year grad degree specifically for transitioning engineers into teacher certification could reach a very different but also good (arguably better, but I won't argue it here) audience.

*ears prick up out here* Can I second the motion?