FIRST Chesapeake Districts

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F3IhA6wftY

This presentation projects that it'll cost about 60K for a district event and 140-260K for the DMCP.

Compare this to MAR, which spends about 22K for a district event and 65K for the DCMP. Why are the costs so different? I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Changing to a district format means, by default, that circumstances have changed. Funding has to be allocated to all sorts of things that previously were not the responsibility of the district. Not to mention, just because a regional existed at a venue previously does not automatically mean is was a financially healthy scenario (look into the MAR presentations when the MAR district was announced regarding the cost of the venues for Philadelphia and Trenton).

Do you happen to have a link to those presentations?

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

This presentation projects that it'll cost about 60K for a district event and 140-260K for the DMCP.

Compare this to MAR, which spends about 22K for a district event and 65K for the DCMP. Why are the costs so different? I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?

Excellent question. Without proof, I predict that these are the major drivers of the cost differences you've identified between here and MAR:

• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to purchase professional event management services, e.g. those from Show Ready Events.
• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to continue to fund 3 Regional Director-level positions, even after the 1-year transitional support from FIRST for these positions is eliminated.

[mrmummert]

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

Luckly some Va. teams like 422, 1086, 2363 and ourselves have traveled to two
regionals the past couple of years and have a better handle on the costs. (1086, 2363 and our team attended both VCU and Chesapeake this year. We're a little tiny team. 422, 1086 and 2363 are much larger.

[mrmummert]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

Excellent question. Without proof, I predict that these are the major drivers of the cost differences you've identified between here and MAR:

• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to purchase professional event management services, e.g. those from Show Ready Events.
• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to continue to fund 3 Regional Director-level positions, even after the 1-year transitional support from FIRST for these positions is eliminated.

Nate don't forget the start up costs for the first year also. I think they are talking about buying two fields and the extra parts and equipment for them.
I would suspect that the next year costs might be lower.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by mrmummert

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

Luckly some Va. teams like 422, 1086, 2363 and ourselves have traveled to two
regionals the past couple of years and have a better handle on the costs. (1086, 2363 and our team attended both VCU and Chesapeake this year. We're a little tiny team. 422, 1086 and 2363 are much larger.

We have a lot of shirts but I'm always looking for more mentors so I don't go full zombie. It's not going to be easy for us, but I'm ready. People outside (and inside) of the region underestimate how many teams here exist on the fringe.

[Foster]

Disclamer: I don't have a dog in this fight other than to say I think the Chesapeake District Champs should be at the Naval Academy since that is an amazing venue. So feel free to click through my profound thoughts to the next person.

Background music "The times they are a changing"

The 1/2 champs are coming. The push to districts is even more than it was 6 months ago. State and regional organizations are working hard to do their best with funds, times, venues and geography to pull things together.

"It's too far, too disperse, too expensive, no pit space, no corndogs at that venue", and on and on. Litany that I've heard with every other district. But the events happen and life goes on. And so far, the districts that have come to life have been wonderful. I think it's cool that MD and VA got together. Hey WVa, whats up? Going to Ohio?

I'm happy to see all the energy and ideas and great thoughts. Pivot off of CD, find your nearest district person and go "Hey, gallons of blood sweat and tears here for you to use".

You are starting to see lots of "done deals" here. For those of you that are not in a done deal, sign up now to help shape it to what you think it should be (oh bring sponsor money, that makes your voice louder).

For those of you currently in a "done deal" that screws your team, sign up to help on the next go around. Oh yea, and you too should also bring sponsor dollars.

For some of you FRC is going to cost more. For some of you it will cost less. Travel more / travel less. But pay attention, districts / states is the way of the future, regional events are going away, 1/2 champs is here to stay for awhile.

I'm all good for sitting in a room remembering how it was. Much happier sitting in a room going "Love this change, how can we build on it"

But the times are a changing, with you, or against you, they are a changing.

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

You know what is also within reasonable driving distance to Northern NC?

:cough: Rumble in the Roads :cough:

I would really love that...but right now, I'm living three hours away from my team, and from the event we host, and after doing THOR I'm exhausted! Too much weekend commuting!

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

I would really love that...but right now, I'm living three hours away from my team, and from the event we host, and after doing THOR I'm exhausted! Too much weekend commuting!

Pssshhhh that is totally a valid reason. 3 hours? Dear lord.

[GaryVoshol]

"Build it and they will come." FiM found this to be true when they created a district event in Traverse City (one of the original district locations). There was growth in teams in the northern Lower Peninsula and in the Upper Peninsula at that time.

Later it turned to, "Since they came, we will build it." There finally is an event in the UP at Escanaba.

Far-flung areas have travel costs - and always have had. But Districts can lessen those costs for teams, because travel may be a shorter distance.

And as was previously noted, a team can choose to attend just one event and thus keep costs the same.

[kjohnson]

If I remember correctly from a Hampton Roads district meeting with VirginiaFIRST staff, VCU was ruled out as host for the 2016 DCMP due to a scheduling conflict, not with the venue, but around the venue. The streets will be closed that Saturday morning for a race (5K or marathon of some kind) and teams would be unable to get to the venue.

For those discussing costs, I worked this spreadsheet up a few months ago. It is estimating registration, travel, and food costs for our small team that typically travels with 15 or less students/mentors total. A few assumptions include event locations, Saturday/Sunday district events, and my knowledge of our costs such as sharing of buses and number of hotel rooms and meals required.

TL;DR: Costs for our small team are approximately $7,800 less for a two district system versus a two regional system. Other teams will of course have varying costs.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by mrmummert

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

We'll see how it goes. There are a lot of teams in VA that get a tougher road. It's not going to help growth in those areas in the short term. However, having an event at all in Western Virginia helps.

Obviously, the current system favors MD/DC/North-VA, which right now makes sense. However, I do think at some point the planning committee will need to increase focus in the other parts of the district.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

Do you happen to have a link to those presentations?

Here's what I could still find. Video.
https://www.anymeeting.com/webconfer...d=E950DC808549

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?

Nate touched on it in his post for VA/MD specifics but it's the same reason a NE, MAR, PNW, IN, and MI average District event costs are vastly different; local leadership has a lot of flexibility in what their district events will be like. Types of venues chosen, professional vs volunteer A/V, show elements, and professional event support such as ShowReadyEvents are all items that local leadership decides on. There's vastly different opinions on what is and isn't needed to run a district event. As long as that exists, and there isn't set standards, there will be differences between average DE cost between the regions. Same pretty much applies to DCMP.

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

The concentration of 5 events (including the champs) in one small geographic location concerns me. Those teams could attend all their events and not have to travel.

Here is how I see a typical non-NOVA/DC/MD team trying to deal with the districts.
--1 event will be local (not sure if this will be true. They have not confirmed that geography will be a factor in adding teams to events)

--1 event will be a non-local event more than 2 hours away. travel will be required.

-- Champs. will require travel.

-- Worlds. Will require travel.

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

"Build it and they will come." FiM found this to be true when they created a district event in Traverse City (one of the original district locations). There was growth in teams in the northern Lower Peninsula and in the Upper Peninsula at that time.

Later it turned to, "Since they came, we will build it." There finally is an event in the UP at Escanaba.

Far-flung areas have travel costs - and always have had. But Districts can lessen those costs for teams, because travel may be a shorter distance.

And as was previously noted, a team can choose to attend just one event and thus keep costs the same.

From my impression/experience in New England with districts, I think it's better to have the events shifted slightly towards favoring the 'rural' or 'low-density' teams compared to what the 'FRC population density' might indicate.

The teams in high-density areas should all be able to attend one event very close to them (<20-40min travel)... they will then need to travel some amount to get to the second event (30-80min).

The teams in low-density areas should be able to attend one event fairly close to them (20-60min travel). They will then need to travel to get to their second event (45-120min).

Teams in high-density areas are accustomed to needing to drive further to get places; teams in low-density areas are accustomed to shorter distances. BUT low-density areas will need events brought to them in order to start to flourish at all... See Gary's 'If you build it, they will come' quote. As examples from New England, especially note what has happened to Maine since 2012/2013. UMass Dartmouth will hopefully be the beginning of something similar in SE Mass. I hope that NEFIRST and local teams can get something similar happening in VT and Central/Northern NH. Generally to fill up these 'outpost' events, higher-resources teams (perhaps from high-density areas) will need to travel further to them for their 2nd or 3rd plays. Even if official direction hasn't been given, high-resource teams will help fill them up...

The DCMP should approximately follow the population center. The teams that are good enough to qualify for the DCMP will generally be able to make things work to get there (particularly if the region makes an effort to help them and be understanding).

Note, district event or DCMP locations may seem weird at first, but wait a year or two for the district to get its feet underneath itself. Be the change!

[Lil' Lavery]

What Nathan suggested appears to be what the Cheapeake District has done with their tentative district placement. They have events tentatively placed in southeast and southwest Virginia, despite a lower proportion of teams in those areas. There are still a couple corners of Virginia where teams will have to travel, but getting an event near the Tennessee/Kentucky borders would be unrealistic and unnecessary.

The DCMP is near the population center of the district.