Team 1717 retires

[gblake]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

And this is why FIRST as a national organization needs to integrate themselves with education rather than separate themselves from it.

Or, on the other hand, it might be why less expensive (and I'm not necessarily talking about cash) STEM programs need to diffuse through communities independently of the schools.

I don't know that schools can pull the rest of the world the way a locomotive pulls a train; but I am confident that a community can support a school, and can make STEM programs into community programs that don't depend so strongly on any single handful of participants.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by gblake

Or, on the other hand, it might be why less expensive (and I'm not necessarily talking about cash) STEM programs need to diffuse through communities independently of the schools.

I don't know that schools can pull the rest of the world the way a locomotive pulls a train; but I am confident that a community can support a school, and can make STEM programs into community programs that don't depend so strongly on any single handful of participants.

If FIRST wishes to influence more students, I feel like being integrated with schools would be able to reach more students. I haven't really talked in depth on this matter to a key figure in a community-based STEM program, but working with schools seems to get more students involved.

At the same time, community-based programs seem to be stronger and more sustainable, but that's an argument for another day...

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

If FIRST wishes to influence more students, I feel like being integrated with schools would be able to reach more students. I haven't really talked in depth on this matter to a key figure in a community-based STEM program, but working with schools seems to get more students involved.

At the same time, community-based programs seem to be stronger and more sustainable, but that's an argument for another day...

I'm thinking about the difference between a community sports league, that engages many dozens of students and families, and a school sports team that directly engages only one group of students. FLL/VIQ and VRC/FTC are great for forming leagues.

I'm not thinking about the difference between one single FRC team and another single FRC team.

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

And this is why FIRST as a national organization needs to integrate themselves with education rather than separate themselves from it.

Though a FIRST team's primary objectives can differ from an organization with which they are heavily integrated, it seems to me that the FIRST teams who have fully embraced the inspiration aspect tend to be more successful than the ones who focus mostly on the education. That's not to say that a full integration of an education system and FIRST couldn't be mutually beneficial, but it's not a perfect marriage either. The focus on inspiration and recognition gives FIRST a slightly different mission from what education systems typically strive to achieve.

[GeeTwo]

While d'Penguineers may not exist as a practicing team, their influence lives on. Both our founder (Gixxy) and our head coach (Hobson) were strongly influenced by The New Cool. I did not read TNC untill late 2014, well after I was drinking the FRC kool-aid. I intentionally did not do pre-research. Well into the book, I yelled out something like "Oh, my sweet Lord, it's Lunacy!" To think that the seminal work on the FRC experience is about the least favorite game of all time, being played by a team that no longer exists, is either the height of insanity or a master stroke of inspiration. I'm praying for #2.

[Sunbun]

FYI... from Noozhawk:
Students Protest End of D’Penguineers Robotics Team at Dos Pueblos Engineering Academy

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by Sunbun

FYI... from Noozhawk:
Students Protest End of D’Penguineers Robotics Team at Dos Pueblos Engineering Academy

Interesting article. Seems like no students were involved in the decision to cut 1717. I wonder if parents were consulted, or if this was entirely the DPEA directors and trustees?

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

Interesting article. Seems like no students were involved in the decision to cut 1717. I wonder if parents were consulted, or if this was entirely the DPEA directors and trustees?

IMO,
the decision to continue or end a program should not be directly decided by students/parents.
Instead, there is a process in which they could provide input via School Community Council (SCM as it is called in Hawaii). Not sure what the approach is for California, but I am sure there is something somewhat similar setup?

Communication however is VERY important.

As stated in the article, many students and their parents have steered their educational choices and goals around the FIRST program in SB. Not surprised at all since it is a world class program.

Hopefully they find a happy medium and solution.
Very curious about why the decision was made. Lack of resources? Volunteer time?

[aquestrous]

I was on this team a few years back. I had and still kind of have many problems with the team itself, but I'm still pretty pissed off that they just...took it away.

As for why? I don't know. I do know that Shaeer is REALLY into the mechatronics project, but...I don't know any of the details. I don't really talk to people on the team much anymore.

Many of the kids are only here because of the robotics capstone project. Now, there is no other FRC team anywhere around the clump of nearby cities, not even as far as Carp, and definitely not one this well known and respected.

From what I'm hearing from this past Mechatronics graduates, the program hasn't really gotten rave reviews, which is not super surprising considering this is a very new program. I only hope that they can improve it with the increase of time and resources alloted to it, and that the students aren't too afraid to speak up on what can be improved upon.

I feel so bad for the upcoming seniors, though. They had absolutely no warning that this was coming and my heart goes out to them.

[Chief Hedgehog]

As an educator I am always for getting students the best opportunity available. I also understand the financial constraints placed upon schools year in and out. When I read the OP, I was interested in the Mechatronics project and it looks like an outstanding offering.

However, as an educator, I also understand the politics of decisions - and most decisions made in a 'closed loop system' -i.e. opinions and decisions made without substantive input from all sides - typically favor those making the decisions.

After reading the noozhawk article, I am fearing that this was done without greater input by the community and students.

It will be sad to see the end of D’Penguineers. They have been a very influential program and my hope is that they can find their way back into FRC existence.

[Arman1266]

It's good to see the Student Body at least wanting to keep the team. Regardless of what happens, I'll always remember this team due to their awesome bots and character... but it would be nice if they stayed. Never let it die. #Keep1717

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

If FIRST wishes to influence more students, I feel like being integrated with schools would be able to reach more students. I haven't really talked in depth on this matter to a key figure in a community-based STEM program, but working with schools seems to get more students involved.

At the same time, community-based programs seem to be stronger and more sustainable, but that's an argument for another day...

There is a balance that can maintain both the school and community. In Minnesota we have ample supply of both community teams and school sponsored teams; our team (FRC 4607) has struck such a balance. The team is 'hosted' by the school, but the community funds the team. I am certain that we are not the first to arrive at this model - but it has worked wonders for us...

What seemed to be a big offset for us when we started (the school not providing any funding at all) actually became our ace in the hole. We have gained many sponsors over our nearly four year history - and most are at the $250-500 level. Because of this, our community outreach squad has evolved into our main project on our team - how do we get more people involved?

We have also worked with two rookie teams - the first (Team A) taking the easy money from the school and the second (Team B) going the same path that we have gone. There is no doubt which team is the stronger and has the propensity to survive the tough seasons. Team A has exactly 4 sponsors whereas Team B is still hard at work gaining new sponsors and fundraising their hearts out. After one season, Team B boasts nine sponsors - and many I wish were sponsors of my own team as these sponsors are large corporations in MN.

We are now working with three other districts to start their own teams. We are using Team B's success (and our own) to champion this hybrid of funding/hosting.

But each team/school/community is different - and our sample size is small.

[Munchskull]

After reading the article, I feel even more bummed that 1717 is leaving the FRC and FIRST community. My question is, what can the existing FIRST community do to continue to provide FRC to students that were promised it it in the Sana Barbra area?

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by Munchskull

After reading the article, I feel even more bummed that 1717 is leaving the FRC and FIRST community. My question is, what can the existing FIRST community do to continue to provide FRC to students that were promised it it in the Sana Barbra area?

If someone really wanted to, a community team could be started in SB/Goleta. It could be made open to all high school age students from any school in the area (even home schooled). Of course, the team would need to find a build space, get sponsors on-board, recruit students and register with FIRST. The team can apply for 501(c)(3) status, which makes donations to the team tax deductible. It's all doable in time for the 2016 season.

[wilsonmw04]

(the following is speculation)

It seems to me that there is a split between the team and the staff/admin of the school. I wonder if there is something going on in the background that we haven't been told about. It looks like the school wants more control/oversight/accountability in what is going on with the capstone project. This seems odd.

The way this change was delivered also seems odd to me. There seemed to be no warning that this could happen. Combine this with the lack of consultation tend to make me think there is a back story as well.

Was there some group (teacher, Department Chair, Admin) that the team has rubbed the wrong way? Was it that the team, that was not totally in the school's control, was becoming the face of the school?