Go to Post To me, every robot is a moving mechanical art form, a sculpture made of aluminum, motors and gears, and I think that soon we will be seeing those art forms involved in some of the most fantastic robotic "dances" that any of us have ever seen - DougHogg [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com Website > Extra Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 14:00
GarrettF2395's Avatar
GarrettF2395 GarrettF2395 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Sierra 117
FRC #2395
Team Role: RoboCoach
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 217
GarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via Yahoo to GarrettF2395
pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 14:04
Aren_Hill's Avatar
Aren_Hill Aren_Hill is offline
Build Nifty Things
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Menlo Park CA
Posts: 1,218
Aren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Garrett,

Any reason you can't put a 1/4" thick gusset plate over the corner 2x1's and just use a face mount pancake piston? Of even just nose mount the current piston. Everything would get a lot lower profile and you'd reduce your part count. (It would even be a great main frame gusset for that corner)

-Aren
__________________
A guy who likes robots.
1625->3928->148->1296->971 oh dear
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 14:21
Rachel Lim Rachel Lim is online now
Registered User
FRC #1868 (Space Cookies)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Moffett Field
Posts: 252
Rachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Lim has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrettF2395 View Post
Also, does anyone know the thickness of the VexPro belts?
I defaulted to 0.1" because I couldn't find anything with that information.
SDP/SI has dimensions for 5mm HTD belts here. The entire thickness (including teeth) is 0.15". Teeth are 0.082".
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 15:26
Dale's Avatar
Dale Dale is offline
Head Coach & Mentor
AKA: Dale Yocum
FRC #1540 (Flaming Chickens)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 504
Dale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud of
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

One of the cool things about this kind of drive, if it has the right configuration, is you get suspension for your Mecannum wheels for free. This insures all four wheels are in contact with the ground at all times. This makes a difference when strafing. I'd suggest flipping your design around so it pivots on the solid wheel. You'll find the Mecannum wheels will work better if you do.

We used this kind of drive this year and in Bunnybots so got to measure this first-hand.
__________________
2016 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2016 Winner Oregon City District, 2015 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2015 PNW District Engineering Inspiration; 2015 PNW District Finalist; 2014 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2014 Championship Innovation in Controls; 2013 Chairman's (Oregon); 2013 Finalist (OKC); 2012 Winner (OKC); 2012 Chairman's (OKC); 2012 Woody Flowers (Oregon); 2011 Volunteer of the Year (Oregon); 2011 Finalist & Captain (San Diego); 2011 Innovation in Control (San Diego); 2010 & 2007 Chairman's (Oregon); 2010 Regional Champions (Colorado); 2010 Innovation in Control (Colorado); 2009 & 2008 Engineering Inspiration (Oregon); 2008 Regional Champions (Oregon); 2007 Regional Finalist (Oregon); 2005 Rookie Inspiration (PNW)
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 21:08
GarrettF2395's Avatar
GarrettF2395 GarrettF2395 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Sierra 117
FRC #2395
Team Role: RoboCoach
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 217
GarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of lightGarrettF2395 is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via Yahoo to GarrettF2395
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill View Post
Garrett,

Any reason you can't put a 1/4" thick gusset plate over the corner 2x1's and just use a face mount pancake piston? Of even just nose mount the current piston. Everything would get a lot lower profile and you'd reduce your part count. (It would even be a great main frame gusset for that corner)

-Aren
How does that setup work with the needed rotation of the module since the cylinder wouldn't be able to pivot anymore? The change in distance isn't that much, but that still doesn't sound like the best thing for the piston.

I love the idea, I literally smacked myself on the forehead after reading your post... It made me feel foolish for not thinking of it first
__________________

https://twitter.com/TeamNinjaMunkee

FRC 2395: Team captain 2008-2009, Design mentor 2010-2011, Lead design and strategy mentor 2012-Present
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 21:16
Tom Ore Tom Ore is offline
Registered User
FRC #0525 (Swartdogs)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
Posts: 462
Tom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond reputeTom Ore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrettF2395 View Post
How does that setup work with the needed rotation of the module since the cylinder wouldn't be able to pivot anymore? The change in distance isn't that much, but that still doesn't sound like the best thing for the piston.
We used a rigidly mounted cylinder in 2012. We positioned the cylinder to minimize the error and slotted the hole to make up the difference. Did not have any issues with it.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2015, 22:04
GeeTwo's Avatar
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Technical Director
AKA: Gus Michel II
FRC #3946 (Tiger Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 3,658
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
One of the cool things about this kind of drive, if it has the right configuration, is you get suspension for your Mecannum wheels for free. This insures all four wheels are in contact with the ground at all times. This makes a difference when strafing. I'd suggest flipping your design around so it pivots on the solid wheel. You'll find the Mecannum wheels will work better if you do.

We used this kind of drive this year and in Bunnybots so got to measure this first-hand.
If you change the design to articulate the Mecanum wheels, you shall be intentionally and regularly creating forces along the axes on a cantilever mounted on another cantilever whenever you're in Mecanum mode. Either you would have to "enclose" the module so that it's mounted on both sides, or beef up both cantilevers beyond what you'd need for the current design.

Mecanum without suspension is OK if the field is fairly flat and the chassis is slightly flexible (e.g. aluminum C-channel or square tubing). If you have a good bit of driver practice, the drivers can even get used to significantly uneven loading. Woody, our practice 'bot for 2014 Aerial Assist had only 13# on one corner wheel and about 50# on the opposite corner. We practiced with it on a patch of parking lot behind the stadium's concession stand; it was less than impeccably level. After a few hours driving, the operators had internalized the compensations. It did take a couple of practice matches indoors with "Buzz", the competition 'bot, to unlearn those compensations. (Yes, Woody actually had a 2-by-4 wooden chassis and kicker and 2-by-2 pickup arms - video of driver practice here. We decided that the practice 'bot would be different than the prototype(s) and much more like the competition 'bot in 2015.)
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.

Last edited by GeeTwo : 26-07-2015 at 22:06.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 12:57
Aren_Hill's Avatar
Aren_Hill Aren_Hill is offline
Build Nifty Things
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Menlo Park CA
Posts: 1,218
Aren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrettF2395 View Post
How does that setup work with the needed rotation of the module since the cylinder wouldn't be able to pivot anymore? The change in distance isn't that much, but that still doesn't sound like the best thing for the piston.

I love the idea, I literally smacked myself on the forehead after reading your post... It made me feel foolish for not thinking of it first
In 2013 I did essentially this, and solved the problem by not attaching the cylinder to the module, it literally just pushed on a standoff, worked great.
(Spring pulled the module back up, reducing air consumption as well)

-Aren
__________________
A guy who likes robots.
1625->3928->148->1296->971 oh dear
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 13:31
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,243
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill View Post
In 2013 I did essentially this, and solved the problem by not attaching the cylinder to the module, it literally just pushed on a standoff, worked great.
(Spring pulled the module back up, reducing air consumption as well)

-Aren
Our last iteration did something similar, but we pivoted the module on an axle that wasn't shared with the wheels and used the weight of the robot to lift the module up. It also made maintenance easy since we could pull the entire module without pulling any of the power transmission stuff apart.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 13:45
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,508
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill View Post
In 2013 I did essentially this, and solved the problem by not attaching the cylinder to the module, it literally just pushed on a standoff, worked great.
(Spring pulled the module back up, reducing air consumption as well)

-Aren
We ripped Aren off and did this too.

3928's design from 2013 is so $@#$@#$@#$@# simple, that it honestly baffles me why anyone would do any variant of butterfly or octonum that isn't a copy of it.

With Andymark's new 4" mecanums, and 4" wide tube, an octonum variant is easy w/ his design.

It's so darn simple.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 15:13
dougwilliams's Avatar
dougwilliams dougwilliams is offline
Engineer - Controls, Electronics
FRC #2053 (TigerTronics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2013
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Vestal, NY
Posts: 109
dougwilliams is on a distinguished road
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
We ripped Aren off and did this too.

3928's design from 2013 is so $@#$@#$@#$@# simple, that it honestly baffles me why anyone would do any variant of butterfly or octonum that isn't a copy of it.

With Andymark's new 4" mecanums, and 4" wide tube, an octonum variant is easy w/ his design.

It's so darn simple.

Does anyone have a picture or link to this approach?
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 15:18
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,243
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougwilliams View Post
Does anyone have a picture or link to this approach?
http://www.teamneutrino.org/seasons/...bot/butterfly/
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 15:47
Nate Laverdure's Avatar
Nate Laverdure Nate Laverdure is offline
Registered User
FRC #2363
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 833
Nate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond reputeNate Laverdure has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougwilliams View Post
Does anyone have a picture or link to this approach?
http://www.teamneutrino.org/seasons/...bot/butterfly/
Doesn't show the cylinder mounting concept that Aren was talking about.
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 15:51
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,508
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure View Post
Doesn't show the cylinder mounting concept that Aren was talking about.
In absence of finding a picture, that entire module sits inside a 3" wide tube. A 1-1/16" bore cylinder is face mounted to the top of this tube, and pushes down on the standoff above the traction wheel. there is sliding contact, and that is a nonissue.

EDIT: chassis posted here. Holes near ends on top face are where pancake cylinder mounts.
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2015, 19:05
Aren_Hill's Avatar
Aren_Hill Aren_Hill is offline
Build Nifty Things
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Menlo Park CA
Posts: 1,218
Aren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond repute
Re: pic: Duodec-Drive (Octocanum)



Uploaded it since it apparently didn't exist on CD.

The piston shown is a 1-1/16" bore pancake piston from Automation direct, 1" stroke. It pushes directly down on a 3/8" steel standoff between the two sideplates of the module, and is not connected in any other way.

The module was spring return default to traction mode by a spring (not shown) attached to the small tab you can see behind the omni.
Pop the spring off and pull a single bolt and you could pull the module out.

Any questions about it just let me know.

-Aren
__________________
A guy who likes robots.
1625->3928->148->1296->971 oh dear
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:57.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi