General Motor Rules

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

It's a relatively bounded arms race though, as 500 and 700 sized motors only get so powerful at 12V.

Yes, but it gives a huge benefit to teams who can identify and source the most powerful motors in those series. My fear is that you'll have low resource teams limited to what's in the KoP and available from AM/VEX, while teams with mentors with industry experience will have a tangible power advantage. These teams already have many advantages as is (all well deserved), I don't see the need to make a rule change that will only widen a gap that much of our community is already concerned about. This is similar to the arms race that occurred with minibot battery chargers in 2011. Most teams just used the Tetrix chargers, while some teams used advanced chargers which allowed for a measurable difference in output speeds.

I love the simplicity of what you've proposed, but for me to get behind the issue, FIRST would need to identify a vendor which has a steady supply of motors in at least 75th percentile (perhaps much higher depending on the marginal power increase available around the 75th percentile) of power available in the form factor.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Yes, but it gives a huge benefit to teams who can identify and source the most powerful motors in those series. My fear is that you'll have low resource teams limited to what's in the KoP and available from AM/VEX, while teams with mentors with industry experience will have a tangible power advantage. These teams already have many advantages as is (all well deserved), I don't see the need to make a rule change that will only widen a gap that much of our community is already concerned about. This is similar to the arms race that occurred with minibot battery chargers in 2011. Most teams just used the Tetrix chargers, while some teams used advanced chargers which allowed for a measurable difference in output speeds.

I love the simplicity of what you've proposed, but for me to get behind the issue, FIRST would need to identify a vendor which has a steady supply of motors in at least 75th percentile (perhaps much higher depending on the marginal power increase available around the 75th percentile) of power available in the form factor.

Oh, I agree and don't see a big reason to change rules as currently the amount of COTS motors easily available is FAR better than even a few years ago. I'm moreso saying that if we do, this a reasonable direction to go (relatively constrained) as compared to checking total power, etc...

Tangentially related, we use the regular tetrix chargers like noobs in 2011...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I love the simplicity of what you've proposed, but for me to get behind the issue, FIRST would need to identify a vendor which has a steady supply of motors in at least 75th percentile (perhaps much higher depending on the marginal power increase available around the 75th percentile) of power available in the form factor.

Wouldn't it then actually serve both goals to say: N Cims and an unlimited number of Bag, Mini CIM, and AM 9015 motors[1].

No team has an advantage in finding a better motor. Inspectors now only have 4 motors to identify. Simpler on teams, simpler on inspectors. No serious advantage to teams who can find a slightly better motor. All motors have a wide variety of COTS interface solutions (interfacing with the old FP gearboxes sucked) The only downside is I'd like to see a lower power motor added but we could open up servo limits (say 20W) and that would fill that need.


Course, I don't understand why we need MORE variety in motors.

[1] I picked a motor that's widely available from a supplier familiar with FIRST ordering and timelines.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Wouldn't it then actually serve both goals to say: N Cims and an unlimited number of Bag, Mini CIM, and AM 9015 motors[1].

No team has an advantage in finding a better motor. Inspectors now only have 4 motors to identify. Simpler on teams, simpler on inspectors. No serious advantage to teams who can find a slightly better motor. All motors have a wide variety of COTS interface solutions (interfacing with the old FP gearboxes sucked) The only downside is I'd like to see a lower power motor added but we could open up servo limits (say 20W) and that would fill that need.


Course, I don't understand why we need MORE variety in motors.

[1] I picked a motor that's widely available from a supplier familiar with FIRST ordering and timelines.

Won't SOMEBODY think of the poor little throttle motors?!?!

[jman4747]

Oh well, it was [not] worth a shot. While were at it how about going to 24V?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by jman4747

Oh well, it was [not] worth a shot. While were at it how about going to 24V?

By going to 24V you obsolete every current FRC motor.

[Travis Covington]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

By going to 24V you obsolete every current FRC motor.

And a lot of the electrical system.

[jman4747]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

By going to 24V you obsolete every current FRC motor.

Originally Posted by Travis Covington

And a lot of the electrical system.

No worries you just run all the appendages off of one large motor. The tank drive would use dog gears to reverse and disconnect power on each side and belts and shafts transmit torque to other parts of the robot. It'd work like a early factory or mill with one big steam engine in the basement and line shafts for power transmission.