Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets

[techhelpbb]

There is another wrinkle to this that perhaps should be considered:

There actually (and sadly) exists the chance that the supplier of said illegal substance is an employee of an educational institution:
A fair example might be steroids.

I am not sure there's a perfect right answer - you might turn in one kid (maybe that protects them and maybe it does not) - and the problem will continue to grow until you get to the dealer and those covering for them.

I do agree with the others - if you have direct evidence of illegal substance abuse you should not cover that up - just be sure you follow it up till it gets dealt with.



Also - now that I am done with my work schedule I can link some documents in relation to the previous requests, though again the risk I see here is that at the core statistics can be abused:

1:
"Income distribution and risk of fatal drug overdose in New York City neighborhoods"

Be sure to note this:
"The relation between income distribution and mortality has been controversial (Wagstaff and van Doorslaer, 2000; Mackenbach, 2002). Although studies in the early 1990s demonstrated this relation in a number of ecologic studies, later work suggested that this effect was due to the relation between income (Osler et al., 2002) or education (Muller, 2002) and mortality. Other multilevel studies failed to demonstrate an association between area-level income distribution and mortality (Fiscella and Franks, 1997)."

2:
This is also relevant but I can't find a reasonable public source for it:
"Depressive symptoms, negative urgency and substance use initiation in adolescents"

"Depression levels are associated with lifetime use of a variety of substances in early adolescence and targeting this risk factor with preventive efforts may be useful in reducing risk. Negative urgency may be an important target for interventions aimed at alcohol and inhalant use."

3:
So what about income versus depression:
"Depression and socio-economic risk factors: 7-year longitudinal population study"

"Conclusions The study showed a clear relationship between worsening socio-economic circumstances and depression."

"All coefficients are bivariate and controlled only for the inverse Mill’s ratio. An increase of subjective financial strain (e.g. from ‘with difficulty’ to ‘with great difficulty’) or in deprivation was associated with statistically significant changes in both depression score and the likelihood of being a case of major depression. Becoming poor resulted in a statistically significant increase in depression score (but not in cases of major depression). Increase in income or becoming unemployed were associated neither with a change in depression score nor with a change in cases of major depression. Changing civic participation was associated with lower depression score only, to a statistically significant degree. Change in living arrangements was associated with change in both depression score and change in cases of major depression."

Which to the point - bad things happen to people 'with money' to.
How much is 'with money' to you?
Sometimes people hear that people like doctors make $250k and think wow - I'd never have a worry.
Take a look at their student loan payments each month and you can see where it can go.

Let's add this cause I turned it up on Google out of curiosity:

4:
Towards the point I made above. Remember that doctors don't start out making $250k.
They make very little during residency and still have access to the pharmacy:
"The Secret World of Drug-Addict Doctors"

5:
Mentions income versus overdoses in a graph for Washington State:
"Drug Abuse and Overdose"

6:
Reinforcing the reason that long term drug use as mentioned in the previous links, in particular with relation to heroine, has cumulative negative impacts on health.
"How heroin kills you"

7:
Cumulative health impacts can feed back into depression (or vice versa) (see #2, 3 and 6 for the reason this is here):
"The Relationship Between Mental and Physical Health"

All rights, trademarks and ownership of the linked documents are acknowledged by this post.

[pmangels17]

Regardless of when in the year drug/alcohol abuse occur, the user's socioeconomic status, the type of school, or their membership on the team and our roles alongside them (students, mentors, teachers, etc), and frankly regardless of what the law is or should be, we as teammates need to ensure that fellow members of our team are acting responsibly and taking care of themselves, driven not by an obligation or legal requirement, but out of the compassion we all share for each other.

While many people subscribe to the idea that whatever people do on their own time is their own business, I cannot support that sentiment. Recently, I endured a great personal loss at the hands of substance abuse, and anybody else who has had a similar experience realizes that the ramifications of one's actions inevitably affect more than the individual. No matter who the person is on our team, whether it be a mentor or student, We as team members have a responsibility to ensure the safety of every member of our team. Sometimes this may be difficult, and I know that this is a bit of a derailment from the question of "What do I do?" to "Should I do something?" but the answer to the latter is yes, you should do something.

Figuring what to do is a bit trickier, as team dynamics vary and depend on who is addressing whom, but regardless, there are some key points that should always be included. The first is to approach the individual openly, and make it clear that you are addressing them because you are concerned for them, not because you are concerned that they are breaking a rule or law. Second, be compassionate and willing to listen, always trying to further your understanding of the situation. Finally, you are not alone. The individual undoubtedly has other friends or family, as do you, who likely share your concern. Talking together about the issue and deciding as a group how to approach a very subjective problem is always a good course of action. Most importantly, you have to do something, because if you don't, the consequences can be among the most horrible that there are.

Disclaimer: I have not had any sort of experience like this on my team. I speak from other areas of my life separate from robotics on this topic. I neither condone nor partake in the consumption of illegal drugs.

[GeeTwo]

I am confident that a few of our student team members have used alcohol and/or illicit drugs. The practical line is that we expect the team members (mentors included) to show up ready to compete - which means clear-headed and at least decently rested (though that slips a bit in February!). We have sent kids home from build sessions because "you need sleep more than the team needs you like this". By requiring this, I believe that we have inspired a number of students to change their drug habits. Some have cut out (or at least down on) illicit drugs. At least one began taking his prescribed meds more reguarly. I understand that another got his doctor to change his meds to something that suppresses the symptoms of his medical issue without also suppressing his intellect.

Our of our usually unstated goals is to inspire clean living. In some cases we even place this above inspiring science and technology. Transforming the culture for the better is the real bottom line.

Individuals with the fortitude to change bad habits are inspirational. They often prove to be good leaders.

[The other Gabe]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Correct, but Alcohol is a depressant, a drug that greatly inhibits the body function. There's a reason it has a surgeon general's warning on every container.

I really don't want to get into a debate in a thread that has already been derailed. While controversial, the OP brought to question a very important topic. For the most part it has been ignored and turned into a Health Class argument.

And meth and Nicotine are stimulants, yet still classified as drugs

Back on track: In most circumstances I could not, in all good conscience, get a kid in trouble for confiding in me about drinking or doing drugs or whatever. (s)He obviously trusts me if they're telling me about it, and I shouldn't break that trust, especially if it's a case of "there was alcohol at a party and I kinda got pressured into having some after I was curious as to what it tasted like." That being said, there are times when it would need to be addressed in some form. if a kid is addicted, action needs to be taken, and how they're dealing with that addiction may play a part in that (someone who comes to a teacher knowing they have a problem vs someone openly bragging about sneaking beer to an FRC event). This is an opinion coming from a student(ish, graduated this year) perspective

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Either way, US drug policy needs a massive overhaul and I think we're starting to see that. The best cure for addiction and reckless behavior is love and kindness, not ham-fisted rules and lectures.

\End hippy-activist rant.

agreed

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by pmangels17

We as team members have a responsibility to ensure the safety of every member of our team.

This is the key to me. As a student and as a mentor, I care about all the members of my team. I want them to lead long and successful lives, by whatever standards are important to them.

As a student, I was well aware that there were students that had a relatively large pot habit on my team. I'm also pretty sure some of the mentors at least were aware of this-- but these students were also nearly straight A students, contributed in all sorts of ways to the team, and have gone on to have successful college and professional careers. It's quite clear that their recreational drug use wasn't negatively affecting them (or the team, or those around them), and I personally don't see any issue letting that pass.

That being said, I also went to a different high school my junior and senior years that had all sorts of issues with recreational drug use, and I have a side of my family with a history of substance abuse and depression, which has lead to all sorts of personal, professional, and legal issues. Were someone in a similar situation that I was aware of on my team, I'd definitely be talking to them and trying to get them help.

I'm definitely not saying that students all partake in responsible ways, but I tend to play it very, very cautiously when approaching sensitive situations without having had personal conversations with those involved, and this issue certainly counts as sensitive. Unless there is a clear and present danger (either legal or medical) to the team member or members involved, I'd avoid going to school or legal authorities.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by The other Gabe

In most circumstances I could not, in all good conscience, get a kid in trouble for confiding in me about drinking or doing drugs or whatever. (s)He obviously trusts me if they're telling me about it, and I shouldn't break that trust

Just for the sake of the question, would you be prepared to face legal consequences for not reporting it?

[techhelpbb]

Drinking alcohol is a tricky issue for minors, the law is not quite cut and dry:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_lif...h-parents.html

Schools might have additional obligations that create penalties.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

Unless there is a clear and present danger (either legal or medical) to the team member or members involved, I'd avoid going to school or legal authorities.

Question: Asimov's Zeroth Law.

What I'm getting at is the following scenario, which may present a clear and present danger to the team.

Team member admits to team mentor that team member uses "controlled substances" recreationally. Appropriate governing law/policy (of any governing jurisdiction, including school) states that if said mentor knows and does not report, they are in big trouble (if caught later).

The big problem there, as a mentor, would be this: Reporting saves mentor's employment, involvement with team, possibly even the team--but betrays a trust. Failing to report preserves the trust... but at the risk of severely damaging the team, if not destroying it.


To be honest, this isn't an easy question. I speak from painful experience--let's just let it go at that.


Also, to be honest, if I was in that position, I would probably encourage the student to talk to someone who I'd be obliged to report it to--many times, facing the consequences is better than avoiding them, and in this case could save a life. (And, I'd also be looking for places that can provide help.)

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by EricH

Also, to be honest, if I was in that position, I would probably encourage the student to talk to someone who I'd be obliged to report it to--many times, facing the consequences is better than avoiding them, and in this case could save a life. (And, I'd also be looking for places that can provide help.)

And this was pretty much the way this was handled on my old team. The discipline policy was that behavior against the team's code of conduct (which was a contract signed by the team member and their parent) should be told to our faculty advisor, who would handle any appropriate discipline. This was a pretty good system for the team, considering that our faculty advisor was almost universally trusted and admired by the students and mentors of the team. I'm sure there are many issues that I was not aware of that went by him, and I know that he helped numerous students who were suffering from depression or anxiety while on the team.

I'm personally very concerned for my current team, which serves low income students and doesn't have a very good connection to our school. I have very little legal knowledge, but I'm pretty sure the arrangement on 2220 was relatively safe legally for the team (given that our mentor was enforcing school policy), while my current team really has no good/safe way of handling a problematic situation like this.

Thank you to this thread for helping me realize that the mentors on my team need to have a discussion about handling these situations.

[The other Gabe]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Just for the sake of the question, would you be prepared to face legal consequences for not reporting it?

that is a tough question. I'm not sure

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Just for the sake of the question, would you be prepared to face legal consequences for not reporting it?

What kind of legal consequences are you thinking of?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

What kind of legal consequences are you thinking of?

That rather depends on the jurisdiction, I think. "Contributing to delinquency of a minor" is one that could be used on the upper end of the scale (for failing to try to stop the activities). The lower end includes the typical standard "violation of organization policy" penalties. Exactly what gets applied--and who it's applied to--is going to be dependent on both the case and who's applying the legal consequences.

[thatprogrammer]

My team has never had any members who have done illegal drugs or alcohol *well, as far as I know as a student*. An important to note however: is that our school has a special policy for kids caught using drugs or alcohol. Rather than removing all scholarship chances or sending them to jail, students are first given some counseling and a warning. Only if the issue continues are actions, that could really hurt their future, taken.

[MysterE]

Ok all,

The truth is that in most states, drug and alcohol abuse are not considered mandatory reporting items for teachers. The only mandatory reporting required is if 1) a student tells you about an abusive situation or they plan to hurt themselves or others.

We are not required to report on drug or alcohol usage so long as it does not happen while a student is under our purview of control. In other words, unless the individual school has a specific rule that directs teachers otherwise, it is left to our discretion.

The reason I brought the whole topic up in the first place was to start a discussion about an issue that without a doubt is part of our students. Yes, statistically, our kids will be involved in both drug and alcohol abuse. It doesn't matter what type of school you go to or how clean you think your kids are...some are struggling. Let's ignore the arguments of whether drugs and alcohol are inherently bad or benign...what I do know is that we need to have a conversation about this stuff with all of our students and team members, you need to be aware that you also need to watch for the danger of abuse from among your teammates. Hopefully your team has a policy, if not, one needs to be developed.

Thank you.

[Clem1640]

Good subject.

We of course have a strict policy prohibiting participation in team activities by anyone intoxicated (whether via alcohol or drugs, student or mentor is not specified) and this is grounds for dismissal.

Of course, having this policy means that any drug or alcohol use is not discussed (and certainly not with me). In practice no-one has ever been dismissed from the team for this reason. This is not to say that there is and has never been any drug or alcohol use on the team, but it discourages obvious intoxication.

The rule exists primarily for safety reasons. My greatest nightmare as an FRC Head Mentor is to have someone injured in the course of team activities. Intoxication clearly increases risk of injury.

We do have students and mentors using prescription drugs. Sometimes I know about these; sometimes I do not. We have no team policies relating to the appropriate use of prescription drugs, although some have psychoactive effects. With students (and parents) open about their prescriptions and effects, we have worked to either schedule dosages or schedule work to minimize the impact.