Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Ari423

.The question here is "What should FIRST mentors do it they know their students are making bad decisions?"

It really doesn't depend on the bad decision specifically: They could be snorting coke, or using the chopsaw wrong: You mentor them so they at least understand why it is wrong, what is correct, and your very clear expectation and insistence they do it correctly. No, you can't prevent everything, and it is there if you look carefully. But you are an influencer: Use it for good.

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Sometimes all it takes to cure these addictions is the reminder that one is wanted and loved.

Indeed.

[Insanity000]

This is definitely an interesting topic that as we have seen, each person has their own view. I think it is important to get student's points of view in a situation like this.

I think it is important to look at what the definition of a "mentor" is.

noun
1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.

It's important to look at the word "trusted" here.

Hypothetically, if I were in this situation, as a student, where I had an experience with drugs or alcohol, not to the point where it was a problem affecting my health or well being, and told a mentor about it, it would be because I had a considerable amount of trust for the mentor I was speaking to. With that amount of trust in a mentor I would expect that they would keep it confidential and provide support to me. Not necessarily reporting it to school officials or parents. If they were to immediately do that, report it to school officials or parents, I feel it would ruin the relationship and trust I had with that mentor.

I also understand there is the debate of when a mentor becomes too close to a student, and that something like this my be considered "too" close. I also believe that it is up to the individual mentor to decide what they would do in a situation like this and when to decide that the situation needs to be reported to someone else for the safety and well being of the student. Either way, it is up to the individual mentor of what they see fit. I am just trying to show a students perspective of this.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

It would not be prudent to ignore that this is a fact in our schools today. We must do what we can to be a good example as well as a good mentor. While our students must register for the Robotics "class" and are graded for their activity, we are still governed by the district Co-Curricular Code. http://www.d214.org/co-curricular/co-curricular-code/
This policy applies basically 24 hours a day and is in full force while we travel and compete. We remind students and parents at every opportunity and especially prior to travel. Any failure to comply gets you a trip home at your own expense and all of the consequences outlined in the code. What is more important though in my mind, is reiterating that a seemingly simple mistake has long term effects. As most members of FRC teams are on track to attend good schools and/or are interning at sponsor locations, a simple slip could halt all further opportunity. Yes, it is very hard to say "no" or to walk away when approached, but all of our students have taken the hard step to be on an FRC team. That gives them the extra bit of confidence and intestinal fortitude to at least resist the temptation when it does occur.

[ratdude747]

(Speaking as a "mentor" to younger friends in the like)

I (and my wife) have had to deal with this before... somebody who'se getting into the vices and the authorities (their over-punishing parents) aren't going to actually fix the root problem.

It's a fine line... On one hand you love them and want them to suceed in life, on the other, you don't want to tolerate immoral/illegal behavior. It's a fine line to walk. Where the line is, well, it depends on the person and relationship to the mentor. Sometimes you don't know where it is. It's a struggle; at least I (and others) can know that by caring in the first place, we've made the first step.

(Note- if there is a formal policy over one's head, that changes things, rules are rules).

[wireties]

My two cents...

We are mentors but primarily with regards to the use of technology, the pursuit of technical careers, work ethic, team participation, leadership - all the things that make a FRC team work. I think a mentor should refrain from sharing opinions about drug or alcohol use, legalization etc with students. We certainly should not be drinking or using in their presence.

It is not that I think one thing or another is evil but these are parental domains. If a mentor thinks a student has a drug or alcohol problem, tell the parents in confidence. If a mentor witnesses drug or alcohol usage during "team time" or in "team areas", tell the teachers involved. Teachers are the only ones with the authority to take any kind of action. Teams aligned with schools generally have to follow the school guidelines, not to do so risks the relationship between the team and the school (perhaps the very existence of the team).

[wireties]

For you students reading this thread I have a quick story for you...

My dear cousin was a scratch golfer and a catcher looking at multiple offers from D-1 schools. He went to a EOY party in 1976 and smoked some treated reefer, called killer weed at the time, handed to him by a friend. He was not a habitual drinker or drug user. The next morning he woke up a different person and has been institutionalized to this day almost 40 years later. Whatever was sprayed on what he smoked triggered a psychotic breakdown - happens more often than you think.

Don't let anyone tell you there is zero risk.

[M3NT0R]

Originally Posted by wireties

I think a mentor should refrain from sharing opinions about drug or alcohol use, legalization etc with students.

I know what you're trying to say, but I've had discussions with my students before about legalization and why there are proponents and opponents. Part of me being a mentor is to educate my students on what is going on in the world, and giving them an opportunity to be curious in an environment they won't be ridiculed or prosecuted. It's also been in the larger context of politics and not specifically a conversation about drugs.

It is not that I think one thing or another is evil but these are parental domains. If a mentor thinks a student has a drug or alcohol problem, tell the parents in confidence.

Unfortunately, this is not always an option that is available. Some teams like mine are urban teams serving lower socioeconomic communities where typical family structures, for some students, may not really exist.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by wireties

We certainly should not be drinking or using in their presence.

I would actually disagree with that first statement, and have a story to explain why.


My Junior year at the National competition in Atlanta, Friday night was one of our younger mentors' birthday. He wanted to go to a restaurant with a couple mentors and students who he was friendly with and have a good time. Being a young guy, he decided that Hooters was exactly where he wanted to have his birthday dinner. Later that night we would have to answer to our head mentor about whether or not Hooters was a fit place for a bunch of young adolescent boys on a field trip, but that's beside the point.

We got to the restaurant, ordered our wings and food, and the two mentors got some beers. This didn't strike me as odd at all, every single time I had gone to a restaurant with my parents or parents' friends they had gotten alcohol. Alcohol, at this point in my life, was a means for adults to get tipsy and have a good time. And adults having beers was always followed by some light stumbling, overloud talking, and occasional swervy driving. Drinking beer and getting drunk sounded like a very exciting adult activity and it was very not cool that the law told me I couldn't do it.

While eating, the birthday boy was made to get on a table and hula hoop with a couple of the waitresses (don't worry, he did so graciously and professionally), songs were sung, music was played, and we had a great time just talking and hanging out. What did strike me as odd though was that there was no light stumbling, no obnoxious talking, and certainly no swervy driving. Each of the adults had only had a beer or two and then stopped. No big pitchers or weird mixed drinks. Just two beers.

We walked back to the hotel through downtown talking about tomorrow's matches and the fact that we had secretly recorded the young mentor hula hooping exploits. We weren't a drunk group wandering home. We were two mentors and three high schoolers on an amazing robotics trip. Those mentors showed me alcohol in a context where it wasn't used as a means to an end. Sure I had seen people drinking casually on TV and movies, but it is entirely different to see strangers doing something and then to see two people that you respect immensely doing it. They were done mentoring me on fabrication, math, and design that night and instead mentored me, unintentionally I think, on life.


I hope that one of these days I can have a similar effect on a student on my team. Though I may have to pick a place other than Hooters to save our administration some headache. I hear there is a nice alternative now anyway

[Jon Stratis]

While it's great that responsible use can provide a good, worthwhile example for someone like monochron, someone else may take away from it that it's ok to drink with dinner every night, and that impression may lead to problems down the road. Better, in my personal opinion, is to show the students that it's possible for adults to go out and have a good time without any alcohol. They may assume you occasionally drink, but having the example of not drinking when it's available may go a longer way.

That said, I don't really think it's in the job description of a mentor to attempt to educate students on anything other that what we're there for - inspiration and recognition of science and technology. It's not my job at meetings to lecture kids about alcohol use, or talk about politics, or or anything else that may be controversial. It's to show them that engineering is fun, and that it exists largely outside of all those other concerns. Focus on what we're there for, and when necessary refer the students to the appropriate individuals employed by the school.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

While it's great that responsible use can provide a good, worthwhile example for someone like monochron, someone else may take away from it that it's ok to drink with dinner every night, and that impression may lead to problems down the road. Better, in my personal opinion, is to show the students that it's possible for adults to go out and have a good time without any alcohol.

It is true that both of those lessons are good ones. I don't think your suggestion would have had much of an affect on me because I had seen these mentors have a good time before. We had eaten dinner before and had seen my parents enjoy themselves without alcohol. What the night showed me was that alcohol can be used in moderation (something I didn't fully comprehend at the time) rather than alcohol isn't necessary (something that I had already seen many times in my life).

[DampRobot]

I'm coming to this party pretty late, but here's my two cents.

First, I suppose I don't know the full circumstances, but I really doubt that there's anything approaching addition here. Most kids will try alcohol or pot at some point in their lives, and for many, the first time they try substances will be in high school. For the vast majority of cases, this will mean social drinking or smoking. Not great, but very different from a full fledged addiction.

I'm not an expert on this kind of incident, especially with respect to how it works with school policy. So, the following is just opinion. Also, I will explicitly say that my thoughts in no way reflect the views of any team I have ever been affiliated with. In fact, I suspect many on those teams would actively disagree with me.

That said...

Circumstances to intervene:

• Addiction: If you actually suspect there is some kind of addiction at work, it should be your duty both as mentor and a friend to become involved. That said, my guess is that it is unlikely addiction is at work here.
• At work sessions/competitions: If teammates are using at work sessions or at competitions, the team will likely become liable to some degree. This would have huge repercussions for everyone on the team. In addition, the concept of teenagers operating machine tools or robots in any state of impairment is so terrifying, I don't even want to think about it.
• Team vs. personal: If you suspect that the substance use is becoming a thing associated with a team vs with an individual (IE, robotics kids all go out to smoke together, vs one or two happen to smoke with other friends) than you should intervene. Robotics should not become an activity associated with drugs.
• Repeated incidents: If this is an issue more than once or twice, it brings up major concerns, especially with regards to point one.
• Role models: If team role models are creating a culture where drinking is a cool thing that older kids get to do, it needs to be stopped.

Circumstances to talk to team members, but not immediately involve admin/parents/police:

• Isolated incident: If a senior has a beer for the first time with friends at a party, this probably isn't something that concerns the team too much. Perhaps if it comes to the mentors attention, it warrants a friendly conversation from a mentor about the importance of responsible drinking, but it probably shouldn't have enormous repercussions for the individual or the team. If it isn't regular or repeated use, (I would argue) it likely isn't a problem.

And that's the list. I'd argue that the circumstances where drastic intervention is not required are very specific, but also that those circumstances encompass the vast majority of cases in high school.

These situations deserve to be taken very seriously. A mistake on a mentors part can have dire consequences. We certainly don't want valued and loved team members to destroy their lives because no one thought it was there place to intervene. As many of us have, I have had personal experience with people going down this path. On the other hand, as a mentor you could essentially ruin a teenagers future by reporting them for what might just be one mistake. Scholarships and admissions offers would likely disappear, they might lose their job, and they could be kicked out of school. It is your clear duty to consider whether or not this is in their best interests.

I don't envy your decision. It's easy to draw black and white lines on the internet, and hard to deal with grey areas in real life. But I beg you to consider the consequences your decision will have, either way. This could very will effect their entire future.

[Mykey]

I am glad to see this topic being discussed.

First let me start by saying that it is a topic very important to me. I have never done an illegal drug in my life. However, I often visit the graves of close friends who I lost due to either the drugs themselves or the world of crap that seems to always come with them. Yes, I am aware that light use does not always get to be so dramatic. However, sometimes it does.

Also I am an engineer who used to be a counselor. I have a Masters in Counseling and have dealt with this topic on a professional level as well as a personal one.

I am not about to tell everyone how to handle it. This is a messy and a messed up situation to find yourself in.

What I do want to stress to everyone:
No one is ever alone when dealing with drugs.
This includes the user and the one they come to. If you do not know what to do you can ask a counselor (school or otherwise) in confidentiality for guidance. Don't be a hero (it never works). Don't be a Lone Ranger. Make use of the trained professionals that are there for you.

And the hardest lesson sometimes is that you may not be able to help.

Edited for typos.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by M3NT0R

I know what you're trying to say, but I've had discussions with my students before about legalization and why there are proponents and opponents. Part of me being a mentor is to educate my students on what is going on in the world, and giving them an opportunity to be curious in an environment they won't be ridiculed or prosecuted. It's also been in the larger context of politics and not specifically a conversation about drugs.

I commend you for your involvement and concern for the students. But with respect we are technical and team mentors, not "big brother" types. The "opportunity to be curious" is better limited to robotics. We should abide by the rules of the schools involved, FIRST YPP and expectations of parents. Of course there are exceptions but we should be teaching how to be part of a team, to use math, to use tools etc. Everything else is the domain of parents.

Originally Posted by M3NT0R

Unfortunately, this is not always an option that is available. Some teams like mine are urban teams serving lower socioeconomic communities where typical family structures, for some students, may not really exist.

Understood but someone who can make a difference must be told.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

It is your clear duty to consider whether or not this is in their best interests.

With respect this is not a duty for technical mentors, especially not younger mentors. After you have raised a couple teenagers you gain necessary perspective. This is the sole domain of teachers and parents. We mentors are not supposed to act as "confidential" older friends. Most mentors do not know the big picture, at least parents and the school administration can attempt to handle things in a way best for the student.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Monochron

We were two mentors and three high schoolers on an amazing robotics trip. Those mentors showed me alcohol in a context where it wasn't used as a means to an end.

Wow - for us such behavior gets the student a suspension and the mentors banned. We would have no choice in the matter.

And as a parent I think this is disrespectful. If I want my son to go to Hooters, I'll take him (and suffer the divorce later).