[FRC Blog] New Districts, Frank Answers Fridays, and More!

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by Aren Siekmeier

P.S. Did anyone else read all the way to the bottom? Never heard of some of those ...

Thanks for the fix!

I went to the bottom, and found this.

Originally Posted by FRC Payment Terms

Pacific Northwest (PNW) District | AK, OR, and WA Teams only

Alaska so far hasn't been a part of the PNW - is that changing?

[Brian Maher]

Originally Posted by Ari423

My team was in the exact situation you are describing. We weren't sure if we would make it to the MAR DCMP this year, as we were right on the line of acceptance. We haven't made it in a long time (probably around 5-6 years) so we didn't budget for the $4000 attendance fee. After the last district competition in week 6, when we realized we were going to be invited, we were extatic. That lasted for about an hour, before we realized we didn't have the money to attend and payment was due that Wednesday. Three days is not enough time to raise $4000 from sponsors. Thankfully after some begging and crying our school gave us some money and members asked their families to donate so we were able to raise what we needed to attend (I think we ended up submitting the money a day late).

It was an amazing experience, but the planning (much of which I did myself) was horrendous. Arranging rides (we didn't have enough money for a bus), finding someone's pickup truck to load the robot and tools into (no trailer on short notice), getting permission to miss school. All of it was a nightmare. I personally love the district model because it lets teams like us who tend not to win regionals (never have since 1999) qualify for CMP, but I wish it cost less and gave teams more time to prepare to attend DCMP.

In the end, we were only a few qualification points away from going to CMP. Honestly, im not sure that we would have been able to attend if we did make it because we exhausted all of our funds, extra funds, and potential new sponsors trying to afford DCMP. Next season we will try do leave more room in our budget for further competitions, but that's not easy for a team that struggles to afford building and competing with a robot.

Congrats on making it to MAR DCMP, on both the fact you qualified and the fact you logistically made it possible to be there. Last year we qualified for the first time. We were very lucky in that we had won a Week 3 event, so we had a feeling we'd qualify, and that there were no Week 6 events in MAR so we had an extra week to plan for DCMP. Even with all this extra time, planning was difficult and stressful. We were fortunate enough to receive a grant from MAR (which I believe was easier to do prior to this year) and transportation was covered by our school district.

At DCMP we seeded much higher than we thought we would and, while we were excited and grateful to be doing well, we started freaking out about the possibility of qualifying for CMP. We ultimately were one single district point away from making it, and while we were all disappointed, there were sighs of relief about not having to raise all the money it would take to make it to CMP on such short notice.

My advice for all district teams: plan on going to DCMP, even if you think you'll have no chance on earth of qualifying.

Best case: you qualify and dodge a logistical nightmare.
Worst case: you have a nice chunk of extra money sitting around.

This year we set aside money for DCMP registration and arranged bussing well in advance and this saved us many, many gray hairs this year.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen

TAlaska so far hasn't been a part of the PNW - is that changing?

I didn't find any mention of it elsewhere. But I followed the link right next to that line and found something more interesting ...

Originally Posted by BMSOTM

My advice for all district teams: plan on going to DCMP, even if you think you'll have no chance on earth of qualifying.

PNW apparently was thinking about that problem this summer. Here's what they came up with.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Unless I'm missing something, you would have more funds unless one of the organizations can't or isn't supporting the effort as much as the other. That would probably be a good reason to not join with them in forming the district I suppose.

Apologies, that sarcasm was not directed at you. You'd think that was the case, because all forms of logic point in that direction, but apparently that is not the case in some district transitions.

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by marshall

Nathan, just to clarify my concerns for the financial issues about districts are not about my team but about the 4-5 other NC teams that my team helps to support in various ways throughout the season. I'm very fortunate to have a well funded team. Other teams in my area are not so fortunate and struggle with sustainability... they often don't last more than 2 seasons.

Further, my concerns are less about the total cost, though that is really going to be an issue for some teams. They are more about the timing of needing to raise the funds for the DCMP events. It's going to be a struggle at the moment.

Suggesting that a highly competitive team decline attending an event is pretty funny though.

Having a short window to find out about qualification to DCMP and CMP is very tough... it's hardest because it's the teams on the 'fringe' that have the hardest time knowing whether or not they'll go, and these teams are more likely to be less financially secure. One thing that helped in 2014 was NEFIRST assisting in organizing buses for travel to CMP... If the District organizers are conscious of this difficulty a lot can be done to ease it.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

Having a short window to find out about qualification to DCMP and CMP is very tough... it's hardest because it's the teams on the 'fringe' that have the hardest time knowing whether or not they'll go, and these teams are more likely to be less financially secure. One thing that helped in 2014 was NEFIRST assisting in organizing buses for travel to CMP... If the District organizers are conscious of this difficulty a lot can be done to ease it.

Definitely something I'll bring up with our organizers when I see them. We attempted to get them to hold some bus reservations for St Louis this last year and it ended up not happening because other teams were concerned about the ability to pay for them in the event that they needed them due to the unique way that each school system has interpreted NC's laws/regulations for procuring transportation.

Let me tell you though, there is nothing like an invitation to a world stage competition to get school districts to very quickly re-evaluate their policies for procurement. We'll yet again be pushing to see the organizers take on the challenge of reserving buses to St Louis and maybe even for the DCMP event.

Thanks for the suggestion. Good info to know.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by BMSOTM

My advice for all district teams: plan on going to DCMP, even if you think you'll have no chance on earth of qualifying.

Best case: you qualify and dodge a logistical nightmare.
Worst case: you have a nice chunk of extra money sitting around.

For NEXT year when you do go to DCMP/CMP Don't make it part of the next year's robot assembly funding but hold it aside. I know that teams all live a hand to mouth financial life, but you don't want to be in the same situation year after year.

[meg]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

If the inconvenience to find accommodations is too great, then you can decline attending DCMP (or even, I suppose, your second otherwise free district event). Your team's attended NCR, Palmetto, and CMP for the last two years... that's about $15k, plus 1x 'close travel' and 1x 'distant travel.' In districts you could go to 2 districts and DCMP for less money ($10k, plus 2x 'close travel')... additionally going to 2 districts, DCMP, and CMP should be only more than your current setup by only 1x 'close travel' (about $15k, 2x 'close travel,' 1x 'distant travel').

I'm not sure what you mean by "close" travel. Based on what we've heard so far from NC FIRST, it's closer for us to go to Palmetto than 2 of the 3 locations she's planning for district events, and the third is about the same as Palmetto. There has been no comments so far about DCMP, but I'm not holding my breath. It could very easily go from 1 x "close" and 1x "Far" to 3 x "far".

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen

Alaska so far hasn't been a part of the PNW - is that changing?

In some thread somewhere (ill try to find it) someone said that (i think) 469 from alaska was coming down to play.

Edit: Aha, i was close. Team 568 from alaska is coming to play next year, according to this post.

[Harshizzle]

Originally Posted by meg

I'm not sure what you mean by "close" travel. Based on what we've heard so far from NC FIRST, it's closer for us to go to Palmetto than 2 of the 3 locations she's planning for district events, and the third is about the same as Palmetto. There has been no comments so far about DCMP, but I'm not holding my breath. It could very easily go from 1 x "close" and 1x "Far" to 3 x "far".

I believe the current plan is to keep district events in the West, South, and East NC, and to have the DCMP in Raleigh. For our team, and others in the Raleigh area, that means we have two travel districts and qualify for DCMP before getting a chance at a "close".

A lot of the financially struggling teams (until very recently, us included) that could not afford a second regional are enthusiastic with the guarantee of a second play. We had been a one-regional team who just raised enough money to go to a second regional, but districts is a much more exciting proposition.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

Districts clearly benefit teams and would spur growth in SC. It's a real shame that the SC "gatekeepers" aren't yet convinced of the benefits of the district.

We could combine with GA and have district events in Myrtle Beach (a la the Palmetto regional venue), Columbia, and Greenville. We'd be a huge district with lots of options. And there are strong teams in all of those areas who could help support local district events.

I wonder what it's going to take for SC to move to districts. Perhaps seeing TN and FL do the same?

Indiana is the smallest state to try going it alone, and they did it with 49 teams in the state this year. We had 41. Get that number to start with a 5, and we might be closer. If any of the regional committees were working closer together, I think it could've happened--but it's pretty clear people wanted to play in their own sandboxes for whatever combination of reasons.

(For the record, I'm all for districts as a competitor. Less time out of school and work is clutch for us!)

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Just a small point... Billfred said they weren't convinced, not that they weren't convinced of the benefits. A lot goes into making districts happen, and it's entirely possibly that they just aren't convinced they can pull it off yet.

(blah blah blah)

...we, as a state, won't go to districts until we feel confident we can deliver the same high quality experience at a dozen district events as we currently do at our 4 regionals. We are not currently convinced we can do that, I would suspect something similar for SC.

This. South Carolina has one head ref, 1.5 emcees that are local to Myrtle Beach, one lead queuer, and with Barry Hudson's retirement one game announcer. (Oh, and don't look down to FTC--I've announced that state tournament the past two years too.) I know I'm pretty game and Terrell Burch literally refs the first and last match of the season, but that's not how you sustain four events.

Originally Posted by robochick1319

That is a fair point but right now it isn't clear (to me anyway) that the move to districts is being discussed seriously at a high level. If there are concerns about moving to districts, they aren't being readily shared with teams that could be part of that conversation. Perhaps the dialogue with teams and event organizers will take place this year since our neighbors have moved to districts. There are a lot of great teams in SC that would be very willing to help with that transition.

A SC district would be a small district. We only host one regional, though it is a VERY large event. I feel confident that we could handle three small district events and a championship. There are a lot of great, community driven teams in SC who could make it happen.

It shouldn't be discussed at any level yet, because we lack the key ingredients. We need 50 teams (nine to go, if nobody shuts down), we need four venues that can hold 40 teams for a real event (read: no venue SCRIW has ever run--we cram 24 in with non-standard pits), and we either need some spare key volunteers or a cloning machine. Could it happen by 2017? Not impossible, but I'd bet on 2018.

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by Billfred

It shouldn't be discussed at any level yet, because we lack the key ingredients. We need 50 teams (nine to go, if nobody shuts down), we need four venues that can hold 40 teams for a real event (read: no venue SCRIW has ever run--we cram 24 in with non-standard pits), and we either need some spare key volunteers or a cloning machine. Could it happen by 2017? Not impossible, but I'd bet on 2018.

With 41 teams we are close to what IN had when they started districts. And a cheaper model may make it easier to start new teams and bump our numbers. And Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston have hosted regional events before the big show was moved to Myrtle Beach. I can't speak for other cities but I know Greenville has universities and high schools large enough to host a large district event.

What is wrong with discussing how to prepare for districts and how to implement the model NOW? If it takes years to prepare for a regional, it will probably take years to prepare for a district model. If we START the discussion in 2017, 2018 or later, we run the risk of losing teams in SC.

If TN and FL move to districts before we do, every team in SC will have to travel 8-12 hours for a second event (many teams already do). Which means most teams may only be able to afford one event (a large and competitive Palmetto), may become severely discouraged, and see team participation diminish. SC could easily go from 41 active teams to significantly less.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

With 41 teams we are close to what IN had when they started districts. And a cheaper model may make it easier to start new teams and bump our numbers. And Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston have hosted regional events before the big show was moved to Myrtle Beach. I can't speak for other cities but I know Greenville has universities and high schools large enough to host a large district event.

Right, but 41 and no momentum; we've been stuck there for two years, and I don't hear any big pushes underway to grow that number. The past Palmetto Regional venues--Colonial Life Arena, Littlejohn Coliseum, and North Charleston Coliseum--are all their cities' big, hold-a-concert-or-a-sporting-event venues and priced accordingly; you could get one, but you would not get all four without a ton more support (which I'm not hearing about either). To my knowledge, the Columbia area does not have access to such a suitably-sized venue in a high school; even the new-construction schools like River Bluff out in Lexington don't have that kind of room for pits. (River Bluff hosted the FLL state tournament when we went season before last, but it was TIGHT.)

What is wrong with discussing how to prepare for districts and how to implement the model NOW? If it takes years to prepare for a regional, it will probably take years to prepare for a district model. If we START the discussion in 2017, 2018 or later, we run the risk of losing teams in SC.

I'd say we're discussing it now. If someone wanted to bend the ears of the Palmetto Regional committee and reiterate how this is a good thing, they're free to do so (I can say with certainty you won't have been the first). In my head, you'd prepare for districts in a state like ours by addressing the deficiencies relative to other states that have or are getting them; team count is just the most quantifiable. When you look at states like Indiana and Georgia, they've assembled the people and resources to organize things far beyond one regional tournament--off-season events, workshops, practice fields, things that are scarce or missing in South Carolina, where the committee stages Palmetto and the Local Kickoff and that's pretty much it. (SCRIW has no ties to the Palmetto Regional committee; we inquired when we started, they weren't interested. When I pressed for us to have field elements at this year's Local Kickoff, they were funded by FRC 4901 and fabricated by help we recruited on campus.) When they decide they want to raise their ambitions, I'll be first in line to offer my support.

If TN and FL move to districts before we do, every team in SC will have to travel 8-12 hours for a second event (many teams already do). Which means most teams may only be able to afford one event (a large and competitive Palmetto), may become severely discouraged, and see team participation diminish. SC could easily go from 41 active teams to significantly less.

Florida will likely duke it out with New York to be the last state along the east coast to go to districts; aside from the frequent international presence and bus-unfriendly geography, they're actually -12 net teams since 2012. (Was 76, now 64. 63 in 2014.) Our team loves going to Orlando, but I'd be happy to see somebody in South Carolina working towards a second official event in either format.

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen

Alaska so far hasn't been a part of the PNW - is that changing?

Yes, Alaska is in.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Apologies, that sarcasm was not directed at you. You'd think that was the case, because all forms of logic point in that direction, but apparently that is not the case in some district transitions.

The subset of districts that are interstate coalitions do have an opportunity to defray costs at the administrative level and take the money saved in payroll and use that to acquire assets for the long term.

Or they don't. (:

I'm very very very interested to see how NC is going to do flying solo on districts and wish them luck. Definitely a ship I'd love to even do grunt work on if I hadn't already contracted out my soul to 422. I hope they kill it this year.